WiMax and Satellite – Can’t we all just get along?

Although I was thinking to write my experience of the conflict between Wimax and Satelite which I am facing but when I googled I found pre written words as per the problem which I am facing.

Guys please suggest some sort of solution. Whenever I am using doing any activity on Wimax then the signals begin to have distortion which clearly shows these two technologies have some sort of conflict.

http://www.nearearthllc.com/analysis/presentations/vol3.4.1.pdf

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Here at Near Earth, we focus on digital communications, which in its many forms includes satellite broadcasting/telecom as well as broadband wireless access (BWA), such as WiMax and similar technologies. While satellite is the older of these two technologies, both have provided and continue to provide substantial public benefit and financial returns to investors. But in a shrinking world where finite spectrum resources are

relentlessly being taxed to carry more and more information, it was probably inevitable that two of our favorite technologies would find themselves in conflict.

And so, now we find an increasing brouhaha emerging over pending allocation of the 3.5 GHz band (as WiMax proponents like to call this potential source of spectrum for expansion) and the C-band (as satellite proponents like to call it). Depending on how this is resolved, the fortunes of satellite builders (e.g. Loral, Orbital Sciences) and operators (Intelsat, SES, etc.) could be pitted against emerging broadband wireless manufacturers (Motorola, Alvarion, etc.) and operators (e.g. Sprint, ClearWire, Wireless Australia, etc.).

The sources of this conflict lie in the technical approaches used by BWA and satellite users. BWA networks use a combination of base stations and individual fixed and mobile terminals that transmit radiation at strengths that can overwhelm or degrade the much weaker signals from satellites. This interference can come from both the strong in-band (i.e. within the licensed spectrum) emissions from a tower, or the weaker out-

of-band (immediately adjacent to the licensed spectrum) emissions. In the case of the former type of interference, where the signals are stronger, satellite receivers as far as tens of miles from the transmitter can be affected. Even in cases where the emissions are unintended (and thus much weaker), interference can extend for over a mile. When

roaming users of the 802.16e standards (mobile WiMax) are added to the mix, the potential for interference is substantial. The figure below shows C-band earth stations registered with Intelsat, a large satellite operator – a fraction of the overall total.

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Please suggest some sort of solution.

oh damn and i was thinking of getting a wimax :(

i have 5 sattelite dish antennas at home and there is no way i am comprising my reception quality :P

man its creating a lot of problem for me as I have no alternate like cable or DSL.

I have 5 (Hotbird, Panamsat, Asiasat, Thaicom, DishTV) satellite dish antennae(I think they're called LNB). No WiMax here and I wouldn't be interested in Wateen either (wi-tribe maybe). I use Vfone + GPRS/Telenor EDGE without a hassle so I guess EVDO/3G shouldn't cause much of a problem either I hope when they do become available.

^How you using dishTV? ANy card sharing thingy?

There is a decoder shop in Multan from where I got it about 2-3 years ago I think. And I've heard that the owner of that shop somehow gets like 3 decoders to work on the same card but I'm not sure how that works. But he still charges around Rs.700/Month which is about the same as in India AFAIK so whatever he sells he should get 67% profit from its subscriptions. I have one DishTV connection.

But the problem remains there...... how to solve such cnflict of signals?

Have you tried shifting them away from each other? As further away from each other as possible. Thats the only solution I can come up with.

I have tried but to vein but certainly try again.

The problem is only to C band and I have heard of some power LNB which has the capacity to avoid such conflict of signals.

Ohhhhh GOD this issue is not resolving. I have tried a lot but the problem remains same. Guys suggest some thing.

Did you try asking Wateen for assistance ?

lolz assistance?

I think you are not living in Pakistan.

Wateen simply answers it is not our fault. I asked PTA and they replied to inquire "Frequency Allocation Board" office in Islamabad. I called them and the chain broke because the guys in that board are not only dumb but also "Sain Lok" coz they don't even now what is Wateen.

Summary is that no one will accept any complaint from the customer. Hats off to demnocracy.

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the guys in that board are not only dumb but also “Sain Lok” coz they don’t even now what is Wateen.
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lolz. . .

how you are using internet then?

One thing at one time. TV or Internet

Why not go to some local decoder shop and ask about these power LNBs or whatever they are? Hopefully they'll know about it if they have it. Or complain about this to them and see if they can come up with a solution.

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lolz assistance?

I think you are not living in Pakistan.

Wateen simply answers it is not our fault. I asked PTA and they replied to inquire “Frequency Allocation Board” office in Islamabad. I called them and the chain broke because the guys in that board are not only dumb but also “Sain Lok” coz they don’t even now what is Wateen.

Summary is that no one will accept any complaint from the customer. Hats off to demnocracy.

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I dont know why you are blaming the democracy in that situation :confused: . I know there is no democracy. but there is not relation in between these two facts.

its a technology conflict. you also have got on google about the issues.

its really not their fault

not of any WiMax Operator

not of PTA

not of FAB

they are all operating on standards

FAB is just an authority that issues licenses for the frequency allocation in the spectrum. that also base on the world standards.

any ways the issue you are trying drag more and more is very well known to the technical world. and they already might be on that issue for workarounds or fixes.

for more information you just should contact SAMENA (http://www.samenacouncil.org/contact.php) or FAB (http://www.fab.gov.pk/contacts.htm)

TIP: do not talk to them in harsh words. but request them that you want to know the problem and how to solve it. also request them to forward your query if that is not in correct place.

and as you said that "One thing at one time. TV or Internet"

I guess you may be switching-off one device that might make other work. is that so you talked about?

If Yes… then it seems to me that only the equipment at your premises is making trouble for you.

you should try an LOS/NLOS Out door device to directly deal with the WiMax AP. at a specific frequency and on a Visible Tower.

there might be more than one APs around you that might be conflicting while using Indoor device.

Also in the same time you can try easily relocating your Dish.

Better Quality LNBs are available in the market they can also decrease the problem at your TV terminal.

I am not sure about these workarounds any way. but these or any other solution being at your place may only decrease the problem but not vanish it completely. I can believe you have understood very clearly about the problem what is it, as obvious from your previous posts.

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I dont know why you are blaming the democracy in that situation :confused: . I know there is no democracy. but there is not relation in between these two facts.

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Because they do not listen to our concerns and just laugh away.

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its a technology conflict. you also have got on google about the issues. its really not their fault. not of any WiMax Operator, not of PTA not of FAB. They are all operating on standards. I have heard that FAB is just an authority that issues licenses for the frequency allocation in the spectrum. that also base on the world standards.

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Signals are being disrupted because Wimax wireless Internet services are over the same frequency of the TV channels. Now if all the concerned parties will sit together and study the problem, find the source of interference and submit the findings only then problem can be resolved. What else such organizations are required to do? Atleast they could examine an alternative freuency bands for broadband wireless services.

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any ways the issue you are trying drag more and more is very well known to the technical world. and they already might be on that issue for workarounds or fixes.
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Thats good but Pakistan should have put deployment of C-band WiMax on hold till the problem has been resolved. Instead of this Wimax they could have deployed the pre-defined ITU allocation status on C-band to preserve the viability of global satellite communications. Well I am told by many people that a single solution LNB-C Band can resolve the problem and I will purchase it in the coming days (as you have also said).

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for more information you just should contact SAMENA (http://www.samenacouncil.org/contact.php) or FAB (http://www.fab.gov.pk/contacts.htm)

TIP: do not talk to them in harsh words. but request them that you want to know the problem and how to solve it. also request them to forward your query if that is not in correct place.

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OK I will contact them. Let me tell you one thing I am 99% of the time not harshed at all. Let me also give you a link which will tells you all the findings of a study done on this regard:

http://suirg.org/pdf/SUIRG_WiMaxFieldTestReport.pdf

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you should try an LOS/NLOS Out door device to directly deal with the WiMax AP. at a specific frequency and on a Visible Tower. There might be more than one APs around you that might be conflicting while using Indoor device.

Also in the same time you can try easily relocating your Dish.

Better Quality LNBs are available in the market they can also decrease the problem at your TV terminal.

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I have relocated the dish but problem remains as the dish will need a barrier like wall. Well when in indoor I have tried but no signal comes. Only on the roof 3/5 or 4/5 signals come. The AP known as tower is not near to my house at may be at 3 or 4 kms. The system derails when I put on the buckeye and do some activity on internet, otherwise its OK. And yes I will get a good LNB as said earlier.

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LOS/NLOS Out door device to directly deal with the WiMax AP. at a specific frequency and on a Visible Tower.
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To your surprise I brought a new Jupiter but the installer guy told me that its not getting a single signal as your area is out of coverage and adcised me not go for service. Well as I have previously tested Buckeye, so I brought it, installed it on the roof and now it works. The guy at the franchise was saying that Jupiter not worked because it must be in LOS ( line-of-sight ) and Buckeye does not need to be in sight, as per his experimental knowledge.

This is what you are talking about with LOS (line-of-sight )/NLOS (Non line-of-sight) ?

^my whole purpose to describe all above was simply to tell that the solution will not be availed dragging it like this. any ways.

if your site is out of coverage of WiMax signals. than it could also be the one of the reasons for your service disruption. Before solving the C-Band and WiMax frequency conflict, I think you should try to find a good coverage of WiMax.

and yes I was exactly about that you call it for LOS/NLOS. and recently Motorola has shipped to Wateen new Outdoor devices called some thing like Wave 2 and they are NLOS unlike the Jupiter. they dont need to see the Tower to get signals. and if you got the Buckeye then do not switch from it to any other device. locating this device on the roof will give you more than any of the indoor/outdoor devices.

but try that Wave 2. may be that will take you on. I guess you were also talking about it some where in another thread or same. not sure though.

I think same thread I was talking about that outdoor new Jupiter.

CPEo 450

http://www.motorola.com/business/US-EN/CPEo+450_US-EN.do?vgnextoid=dcead66b1da4f110VgnVCM1000008806b00aRCRD

I checked it but according to installer its ot working. It has lites below the cap.