Solar Water Pumping System

I hope I am on right place to discuss about solar water pumping system . Some of you might heard gov of Punjab took the initiative to install solar pumping system in potohar region specially in rwp . So I applied n get selected in this scheme n team of agency barani also called ABAD visited my place n passed it for the system. Now subsidy for this system is almost 5 lac n it means I'll also have to contribute my part of money which is equally to subsidy amount mean 4 to 5 lac , So in short we have 1 million to install the system n since than I have contact lots of distributors in rwp city saddar road n most of them said they will install the system in around 8 to 9 lac . but but but I want to shop everything on my own I mean inverter n panels cuz these two I find most important things in this project n rest of things like motor pump I already selected like Siemens 5 HP Motor which can be installed with my old 1995 modelpump so in this way I can safe more money cuz pump alone cast is around 1 lac. Now you guys help ur brother to get good quality panels n inverter which works for me n please also mention price range of panels I mean per watt Rs.

you need to provide more details about your setup..

is it for pump only? per house? or combined pump for streets? how much total buget? how much roof space you have to spare? need it for night use as well? how many homes planned for your project? do you have skilled electricians and fabricators?. is the pump already installed? etc etc and any other reelevant details...

Farhan saheeb , The system is primarily for irrigation purpose n motor n pump will deliver water to the head of maximum 30 feet n underground length of line is 700 feet with 4 inch line n total budget is 10 lac but cut 2 lac for motor n other small components remaining is 8 lac . The system will work until sunset , we won't need motor or electricity in nite so that means we won't store power just direct system in daylight , yes pump is already installed with 12 HP diesels engine n I'll replace engine with 5 HP motor n the motor suggested by Siemens distributor in rwp which will work perfectly with my Ksb pump means he has calculated everything than suggested me relevant motor according to my need n pump.Now comes on rooftop , I have poultry shed near my site where I m willing to install this system its about 320 feet away so I'll need 3 core cable to connect motor with inverter so no worries with space its concrete roof.Now comes on Solar panels , inverter n variable frequency device also called VFD . I need to know how much watts n panels will be needed to run my 5 HP motor n which are the best to even give power in cloudy weather n their rates per watt n what is pure sine wave thing also guide me about inverter which are best gives maximum result n yes I forgot some distributor of panels in rwp told me that I'll need 40 solar plates for my motor n he given me rate 105 rs per watt n panels r made in Japan by sharp n they comes with 25 year limited warranty , but I failed to know how much exactly watts are required to run this system. He just said i'll need 40 solar plates n panels r made by latest tech its not poly or mono but amphoras I dunno if I wrote it rite or wrong but that's what he said.

No replies ??????

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not every one is alway online all the time.. we all have work to do so replies sometimes have to wait..

1 - for main equipment you would need power of panels. panels are not measured in number, rather in watt.. a single panel may be 10 watt to 350W to even 500W.. you would need 4x 200W panels to make 1000W and also 20x 50W panels for same energy.. panels sizes and watts are made according to need and the sequence of wiring the strings of panels in either series or parrallel.

2 - you need to find out the power in watts of the siemens motor.. it should be mentioned on the motor manual or itself.. power max in watts. if there is some efficiency mentioned on it, it would be very helpful too

3 - didnot understand about your wiring sytem.. wiring for panels and batteries is different from wapda wiring to the motor.. wiring between panels and inverter should be minimum, always less than 100ft at max..otherwise there would be power loss, lots of it... preferably less than 20ft is ideal... from the inverter you can drag a 100 meter wapda based AC wire to anywhere.. that doesnot result in major power loss/.

4 - panels are of 2 types.. mono and poly.. mono panels are expensive around 95rs per w to 120/W.. poly panels are cheaper at 70-90/W. difference is around 10-15% efficiency at max.. good quality chinese panels may have even less difference of efficiency as some brands are really good.. both almost have same warranty of 20+ years so that is not an issue.. for very large installations, over 2 mega wat power, poly panels serve better at lower cost.

5 - amorphous panels have very little advantages for thier prices

http://www.energymatters.com.au/panels-modules/thin-film-monocrystalline/

they do look cool though.. Black bad Ass..

6 - Sharp hitachi and other branded panels have no advantages over chinese brands like yingli, hi roller, and shanghai solar.. we have done over 30 installations including commercial plazas and banks of canadian solar, yingli and shanghai solar and found almost zero difference in performance.. in my own home i am using shanghai solar panels and in proper irridaiance, they give almost 95% power ..which is the best that could be achieved.

7 - the single most important factor is the inverter you need ... that depedns on how much you are willing to spend and how many watts of power your motor is.. please read the watts and tell.

your buget of 8 lac is enough to run your motor and your house, again depending on the power and efficiency of the motor.

OK I I got ur points , my motor requires 3.7 kW to run but consider it 4kw . now distance between inverter n panels won't exceeds 30 feet but inverter to motor distance cannot be compromised since motor will be installed on dam n inverter in shed for safety n so r panels on rooftop of shed so distance between shed n dam is 320 feet. Some one told me if u exceed 200 feet than guage of wire increase n also cost increase cuz it will be carrying 9 amp n I heard this ac wire alone costs 150 rs per feet .now please mention inverter for me which one will be best for me as u know my watts requirements n also tell me if I go for mono or amorphous ?

Please also tell me mppt charge controller n VFD , will I need these too also if yes than mention good quality brand n price of these 2 devices thanks in advance .

Farhan Sb , I am disappointed since there are many professionals on this forum , but none of them is participating in my thread except you , Anyways farhan Bahi I have shortlisted 2 companies for panels. 1. Sharp . 2.CSI Canadian Solar Incorporated . Now price difference is 5 rs PR watt , Sharp 105 rs per watt in city saddar road rwp n other one CSI is 100 rs per watt with mono n poly for 95 rs available on Nizam solar Karachi based company but have huge network in country n have store in Rawalpindi too , Now give me ur suggestion which one to go Thanks .

as i said before

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not every one is alway online all the time.. we all have work to do so replies sometimes have to wait..

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if you need a specific person`s help, best use PM to contact them.

1 - for a 4KW motor, you would best buy a 6KW capable inverter.. to be on safe side, better option would be a 8KW inverter since it would be runnig a long time always and also running in hot summer so it has much more chance of burning out if its capacity isnt upto match

2 - solar inverter is the CENTRAL component of your system, buy a cheap one and your whole system will fail, no matter how much costly it is.. cheap brands like axpert are not even capable of it. .. proper commercial inverters like Goodwe, outback etc are designed to run on solar for commercial use in such large capacities... since this is an extra ordinary system you will get very little help from mainstream distributors as they deal in small homes with upto 5kva power max..

3 - mono poly wont make a difference, power output is difference is minimal when buying from a good company like shanghai solar or yingli.... saving a 5rs per watt will end up saving over 50k-1 lac in overall system cost for which you can buy more panels.

4 - you should atleast equip your system with 6500W of panels, because atleast 10-15% power is lost in production and conversion, and anytime there is a shadow or rain or evening, it will shut down due to low voltage. .. because you are not running on batteries at all, you will have to spend else where to be on safe side.

for how much time will the motor keep running? time frame from clock every day? would a slightly smaller pump be possible, around 3KW, ? that would run for longer duration instead? lower power motor can be run on easier to buy 5kva inverters which will be in your buget.

PS: there are also other cheaper ways of running your system directly, including using a ups with batteries, along with solar at half the cost of a hybrid dedicated inverter.. saving from which you can spend on more solar panels... you can even buy 3 imported ups of 5kva power for the price of 1 commercial hybrid inverter.

Farhan bai , Don't you think if I go for 6kw than it will go beyond my budget , A guy from nizam solutions told me 5 kW is enough for my needs since its only motor . 2 . that's rite I cannot compromise on inverter can u tell me which one I should consider for 5 KW solar system n also mention the price . 3 . I agree with you on this if poly/mono won't make much difference than why not safe 5 rs per watt n spend on inverter or extra panels . Motor running timings are pretty weird , sometimes motor will run from morning to till evening , sometimes 4 to 8 hours n sometimes won't run at all. I mean it purely depends on our crops when they need water we lift water . No sir , pump is already reduced to minimum cannot compromise more on pump .

N one more thing farhan Bahi , cloudy weather , rain or evening is not a problem for us since the system is for irrigation. I mean if weather gets cloudy or evening reaches than its not a problem for us we can lift water next day , I hope u understand my point we dun need continuous electricity like in homes n offices , we can compromise on this n moreover I made water tank also for water storage if our crops run need water than we can store water too so in this way we can minimal the usage of motor .

1 - on average you will get 4.5kw power from 6kw panels.. on average. so running a 4kw pump for long times on that minimum power will keep fluctuating the pump. and possible damage to motor. extra overhead is always good.

2 - your water needs make sense, you can do away with a hybrid inverter totally if pump does stop for 20-30 min or aa couple of times a day.

3 - read the last line of previous post, and PM me for any questions about that.

Yes u r rite on fluctuating , but what is the work of variable frequency drive ? I think it helps to run motor smoothly n avoid fluctuating but yes having extra watts is also good.

you may need a small battery bank to work the system, which will provide backup in case solar power goes low. and it will charge from solar power so you always have a free reserve to work with..

battery bank is always a great safety investment.

I think I won't need power bank , cuz we won't be using system in nite . today I contacted a guy who deals in solar pumping systems , he sed 5 kW system is enough with VFD converter than I asked him r u saying inverter but he again said converter with vfd controller which will convert DC to Ac for ur motor n he also recommend ed poly panels since mono r not so good on over 30 temp.

no difference in performance between mono and poly related to temp.. difference comes in thin film panels and amorphous ones but that advantage is not enough for the price.

the 5kva and above installations we have done use a single hybrid inverter for all the tasks.. Goodwe has had excellent results so far with an upto 97% efficiency and PF. highest rated we have tested yet... and same panles with infini solar and axpert inverter gives almost 15-20% less efficiency at the same installation.

I understood , Now comes on rates of panels , I have checked market n found Canadian panels reliable n its 95 rs per watt n mono for 100 rs n sharp amorphous 110 rs per watt. But I failed to understand why local makers of solar panels like akhtar PV maker asking 108rs PR watt for poly ?

N I have been told about inverter with VFD controller for 1 lac made in Taiwan with warranty of 2 years for my 5 kW system . now to marrow I'll get more info about inverter n will share here with u.

for smooth functioning of the motor, you should have a wapda line with it..a proper grid tie inverter... read about grid tie inverters and how they would be the best option for long life of your motor with continuous operation without fluctuations and tripping.

either a grid tie or a battery bank is must... with sun shades coming and going in seconds, and rain days, and sudden power shifts would create a spike in voltage and amps and cause problems. unless you have a giant capacitor with the motor, in which case a small battery bank is still a better option..

if you want to talk to direct importer of solar panels and inverters, PM me for their contact number and reference.