Solar system with tracker

salam alikum

come let's discuss about advance solar system.

rather install additional panel to compensate than installing tracker.

sir agar app solar tracker system install karein tu app ka jo existing system ha us pe hi 35%-47% extra power milti ha. this is my personal experience

Abdul Qadir,

Right now solar installations in Pakistan do not employ the simple mechanical method to change the angle of the solar panel, with change in seasons, thus incurring loss in output due to 'Cosine Error'.

Trackers is a thing of the future here. Let me add that adjustable satellite dish mounts are available a dime a dozen. These can be easily be modified for tracker purpose.

Aurangzeb

[quote=“aurangzebhaque, post:4, topic:21052”]

Right now solar installations in Pakistan do not employ the simple mechanical method to change the angle of the solar panel, with change in seasons, thus incurring loss in output due to 'Cosine Error'.

[/quote]

Very common mistake, even by many solar experts. I have yet to see any installation which allows azimuth and elevation adjustment.

Nobody even thinks about that ? All I see is a war between PWM vs MPPT, Yingli vs Canadian solar, my inverter vs your inverter ...............

^ Dil jalee ka Dukh... :P i feel your pain...!!

@ aurangzeb

you are absolutely right, but since you are not on the sales and installation end, you are only on the DEMANDING consumer end, you donot understand how much of hell it is to deal with people asking for Schneider quality product at price of a glass of juice and demand absolution without spending a dime..

imagine some one asks to setup a solar system for 2 fans and 3 lights and when you calcuate a quality product for around 1 lac (just an example), they complain its too much, and bargain and waste 2-3 hours and then leave without even a thanks for wasting time or purchasing anything, these are the people who then go and buy tesla or even lower rate panels and under 10000rs poorest quality controllers with 4mm wiring in open air using small 80AH osaka batteries, and then complain after wards that all the money wasted cz of cheennaaa da maal hi ghatiya hai,..this setup doesnot last 1-2 years and people start complaining.. do you really expect that for every 100 of these people wasting months of our time, anyone would give a dam about a smart buyer who understands quality? and yet even from those 10 people out of 1000, 9 are unable to afford anything more than decent, so if 1 out of 1000 is a legitimate buyer, nobody would make a Custom order for 1/1000... economic laws apply, demand supply, Economy of scales and diminishing returns and other stuff..

thats why even though it would actually be easy to use the dish trackers,...its not bcz of using such small rods based pyramids to support a heavy weight of panels of 200-240W and custom designing it to be able to withstand strong winds and proper wiring and making allowance for shadows, and earth cross rotational variable spin..

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:6, topic:21052”]

^ Dil jalee ka Dukh... :P i feel your pain...!!

@ aurangzeb

you are absolutely right, but since you are not on the sales and installation end, you are only on the DEMANDING consumer end, you donot understand how much of hell it is to deal with people asking for Schneider quality product at price of a glass of juice and demand absolution without spending a dime..

[/quote]

I understand fully. I have been in a similar line of business only making things slightly bigger. The same problems. despite the fact that our customer was supposed to be one of the highly technical organization in Pakistan.

My only \shikayat' is why did you not install adjustable mounts in your personal solar setup. From the pics it is obvious that the fixed angle that your panels are mounted are meant for summer only. While this is understandable, you should have taken the additional pain to mount the panels on an adjustable frame.

Aurangzeb

by the way max output advantage is not more than 15-20. But you add lot of moving parts and surely another control system to track accurately. This also includes extra investment on the frame.

I also thought to make a single axis system but once you calculate in real terms the difference then it is not worth of much. You can add one more panel to get the same extra power you may get from tracked system. Futher more your system remain fixed and rigid one.

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:6, topic:21052”]

^ Dil jalee ka Dukh... :P i feel your pain...!!

[/quote]

You are mistaken, Solar is not my business so I don't need to have any pain. My concern, if any, is about a simple mechanically adjustable rotation and angle adjustment stand for solar panels which can be easily made locally and is NOT much expensive as compared to the crappy fixtures we usually see. Believe me or not, this is really necessary to have different angles in summer and winter, even if you don't employ dual axis tracking.

Now what does that have to do with scales of economy and being on the sale and installation side ?

[quote="tufail_74, post:8, topic:21052"]

by the way max output advantage is not more than 15-20. But you add lot of moving parts and surely another control system to track accurately. This also includes extra investment on the frame.

I also thought to make a single axis system but once you calculate in real terms the difference then it is not worth of much. You can add one more panel to get the same extra power you may get from tracked system. Futher more your system remain fixed and rigid one.

[/quote]

With optimally aligned dual axis real time tracking, you can produce about 40% more power as compared to a fixed system.

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

You are mistaken, Solar is not my business so I don't need to have any pain. My concern, if any, is about
[/quote]

Solar is also not my business at all..nor is any other power related energy items.. what you misunderstood was this...

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

All I see is a war between PWM vs MPPT, Yingli vs Canadian solar, my inverter vs your inverter ...............
[/quote]

and about that , i said,

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

^ Dil jalee ka Dukh... :P i feel your pain...!!
[/quote]

cz i hate such fanboy wars as well.. i prefer quality and durability over brands..no matter what the scene is.. iphone vs galaxy, dont care.. GS3, GS4, GS5, Note3, im happy with my S2...same way with any electrical item..

you misunderstood and took negatively what i said, and if that was due to mistake my word selection, i sincerely and most respectfully apologise.

[quote="aurangzebhaque, post:7, topic:21052"]

I understand fully. I have been in a similar line of business only making things slightly bigger. The same problems. despite the fact that our customer was supposed to be one of the highly technical organization in Pakistan.

My only \shikayat' is why did you not install adjustable mounts in your personal solar setup. From the pics it is obvious that the fixed angle that your panels are mounted are meant for summer only. While this is understandable, you should have taken the additional pain to mount the panels on an adjustable frame.

Aurangzeb

[/quote]

You are right,, but they have been compensated a bit for the rotation of the earth and the angle of sun rays for winters as well when the parabolic path of sun changes direction.. its not a lot of advantage but still it has been taken into account..

waited 2 days and nights to see the sun angle and dusk and dawn to reconfirm and drawing axis for winter directions.. even if its a 10-20% benefit, its still a free advantage worth the 3 days of planing.

the true advantage definately would have been with a rotateable pillar frame, even manually .. but just like a large dish, powerful winds tornados etc could be serious threats to a 4 leg base with more grouting ...the last time an "Andheeri came with the hailstorm early last month or so, many of our neighbours roof items, antennas and other stuff got damaged, and/or blown away..

due to open are of punjab university near our house, it is usually a very strong wind compared to other areas of lahore.

Still, your technical point is 100% VALID AND IRREFUTABLE.. we are all just victims of circumstances.

[quote=", post:9, topic:21052"]

You are mistaken, Solar is not my business so I don't need to have any pain. My concern, if any, is about a simple mechanically adjustable rotation and angle adjustment stand for solar panels which can be easily made locally and is NOT much expensive as compared to the crappy fixtures we usually see. Believe me or not, this is really necessary to have different angles in summer and winter, even if you don't employ dual axis tracking.

Now what does that have to do with scales of economy and being on the sale and installation side ?

With optimally aligned dual axis real time tracking, you can produce about 40% more power as compared to a fixed system.

[/quote]

Well I think if you change the angle 2 or 3 times a year, 40% is highly above realistic figures. I think better fix one tracked system and posts the result for better understanding. But, anyhow, tracker has benefits but at what cost? Extra maintenance is there. Can you share that comparison? As I feel it may not be much feasible with regard to extra costs and problems.

http://www.redrok.com/main.htm

Check out the above website for trackers/heliostats.

Aurangzeb

I have seen this site long time before. But they are sellers. I meant the end-user reviews to confirm the power difference. I am personally instrument and control specialist so I can figure out that the system is not that much easier to keep working and it seems fancy but not rigid enough that you rely on it as solar will be your main source of power. There are more chances that we cant be available to rectify the issues of moving parts and also not everyone will be able to do it himself. that means we are leaving a loop hole in the system that will bite us when we need power.

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:10, topic:21052”]

cz i hate such fanboy wars as well.. i prefer quality and durability over brands.
you misunderstood and took negatively what i said, and if that was due to mistake my word selection, i sincerely and most respectfully apologise.
[/quote]

Possibly a misunderstanding. Your clarification is appreciated :)

[quote=“tufail_74, post:11, topic:21052”]

Well I think if you change the angle 2 or 3 times a year, 40% is highly above realistic figures. I think better fix one tracked system and posts the result for better understanding. But, anyhow, tracker has benefits but at what cost? Extra maintenance is there. Can you share that comparison? As I feel it may not be much feasible with regard to extra costs and problems.

[/quote]

This 40% figure comes direct from the horses mouth, I mean those people who have done research and actually compared the both systems. For example:

http://www.expo21xx.com/renewable_energy/19456_st3_solar_tracking_system/default.htm

http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/article/2010/11/dual-axis-tracking-generates-more-power

These PDF gives an insight and some tabulated data + graphs.

http://www.ijesit.com/Volume%202/Issue%202/IJESIT201302_66.pdf

http://www.tophatenergy.com/html/Energy%20Companies/Wattsun/Tracked_fixed%20study_Reno%20NV.pdf

Finally, this is very interesting tracker: http://www.qbotix.com/rts/

well i am saying it again and again make your own setup and then comment. These are ads and simulated data experiments. For your kind information, the IJESIT comparison simply shows that most of time the difference is 10-20% ( Have a closer look at the graph again ) only the morning time shows some bigger difference.

This does not show the area as that is very much important. If you read my previous post, I mentioned that you have to make 2 or 3 adjustment in the year to get maximum benefit. Even if you are convinced for tracker, you are most welcome to instal one but do not guide other based on these ads and improper data.

Since 2009 I'm using a frame that can tilt and in winter I change the position of panels and in summer too

[quote=“tufail_74, post:13, topic:21052”]

I have seen this site long time before. But they are sellers. I meant the end-user reviews to confirm the power difference. I am personally instrument and control specialist so I can figure out that the system is not that much easier to keep working and it seems fancy but not rigid enough that you rely on it as solar will be your main source of power. There are more chances that we cant be available to rectify the issues of moving parts and also not everyone will be able to do it himself. that means we are leaving a loop hole in the system that will bite us when we need power.

[/quote]

+1.....Amen..

[quote=“Ali05314, post:17, topic:21052”]

Since 2009 I'm using a frame that can tilt and in winter I change the position of panels and in summer too

[/quote]

Ali,

Photographs would be much appreciated.

Since you are using it since 2009, the design has undergone the test of time. We would all greatly benefit from you sharing it here.

Also please do tell us where you got this fabricated. If you have any drawings that you can share that would be great too.

Aurangzeb

here is the link

http://imgur.com/jAgXmXX

http://imgur.com/M0N1RnF