Solar System Suggestions please


#1

I need a Solar system where it can power up the home directly during sunlight hours and at the same time, keep batteries charged up for the night. Load-shedding is excruciating in the area where this is going to be installed. I am talking about 5-6 hours per day of WAPDA available (even less during peak Summer season). The load at maximum would be 6 Fans, 8 Tubelights, 1 Fridge, 1 LED TV. Majority of the systems I have seen in the area mentioned are simple Solar Panels > Charge Controller > Batteries which are connected with Desi UPS. The system is able to charge batteries within few hours of sunlight but using fans etc. during day then means it is constantly discharging/charging battery while the UPS shows it is at full, correct?. The excess production of Solar Panels is also wasted in this setup as far as my understanding goes.

I need an inverter (Hybrid?) which can charge up the batteries separately and keep them topped while at the same time, provide electricity to the load directly from solar panels. Is this possible using Hybrid Inverters or the scenario will be the same as everyone else is doing i.e. the inverter can only keep charging the battery via solar power and provide power to the load from batteries constantly instead of providing power directly?

Responses would be much appreciated.


#2

Location?


#3

Hybrid inverter : 3 KW Plus

Solar panels : 4500 Watt

Cells : 24 * 400 AH (2 volt)

Just you need electricity for Motor otherwise you may turn off Grid Electricity for whole day.


#4

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:2, topic:22674”]

Location?

[/quote]

The solar system will be setup at the outskirts of Peshawar. It gets plenty of sunshine.


#5

[quote=“Awais_Farooq, post:3, topic:22674”]

Hybrid inverter : 3 KW Plus

Solar panels : 4500 Watt

Cells : 24 * 400 AH (2 volt)

Just you need electricity for Motor otherwise you may turn off Grid Electricity for whole day.

[/quote]

Can you please explain briefly why to go with 2 volts? and also, the house might some days be empty for a week or two, even a month. I think it should not be an issue when the UPS keeps everything topped up, correct? I know I could simply go with ATS panel and LNG Generator but the noise/environmental pollution is something I wish to avoid.


#6

it is not a cell it is set of 2Vx24=48v battery bank.

by the way, what is your budget as this propsed system is around 6-7lac.


#7

[quote=“tufail_74, post:6, topic:22674”]

it is not a cell it is set of 2Vx24=48v battery bank.

by the way, what is your budget as this propsed system is around 6-7lac.

[/quote]

Budget is about 2 lac. Can something be done in this budget for the above mentioned load? About battery bank, you mentioned 24 batteries of 2V? Correct? Or I am understanding it wrongly?


#8

yes infini works with 48v so u need bank of 48vdc. combination can be cells of 2v or batteries of 12v.

well for 2lac u can make initial setup that can be upgraded to solar. like a good battery and inveter. later on add panels to it.


#9

[quote=“Joker, post:7, topic:22674”]

Budget is about 2 lac. Can something be done in this budget for the above mentioned load? About battery bank, you mentioned 24 batteries of 2V? Correct? Or I am understanding it wrongly?
[/quote]

Yes you understand it right… But AC system is impossible with 16 hours backup in this budget…By the way a Good DC system can be made…

As Dc fans,Tv, lights are available in market…but if you are going to make Dc implementation then please once consult with me…i will tell you which companys Dc devices are reliable and durable

Sent from my Max2_3G using Tapatalk


#10

[quote=“tufail_74, post:8, topic:22674”]

yes infini works with 48v so u need bank of 48vdc. combination can be cells of 2v or batteries of 12v.

well for 2lac u can make initial setup that can be upgraded to solar. like a good battery and inveter. later on add panels to it.

[/quote]

Which inverter do you recommend? and can you please tell me if the Hybrid Inverters charge the batteries as well as provide direct power to load from Solar? or the batteries will be constantly discharged by load like that of Desi UPS where solar panel is connected to batteries directly.

Also, what would work better? 2 volt or 12 volt?

What do you recommend I should start with?

[quote=“Awais_Farooq, post:9, topic:22674”]

Yes you understand it right… But AC system is impossible with 16 hours backup in this budget…By the way a Good DC system can be made…

As Dc fans,Tv, lights are available in market…but if you are going to make Dc implementation then please once consult with me…i will tell you which companys Dc devices are reliable and durable

Sent from my Max2_3G using Tapatalk

[/quote]

Thing is, sunlight is ample in all Pakistan. I mean in case of Peshawar, the calculation comes out to be at least 12 hours of sunlight in summer so backup time required after some WAPDA would come to perhaps 8-10 hours?


#11

[quote=“Joker, post:10, topic:22674”]

Which inverter do you recommend? and can you please tell me if the Hybrid Inverters charge the batteries as well as provide direct power to load from Solar? or the batteries will be constantly discharged by load like that of Desi UPS where solar panel is connected to batteries directly.

Also, what would work better? 2 volt or 12 volt?

What do you recommend I should start with?

Thing is, sunlight is ample in all Pakistan. I mean in case of Peshawar, the calculation comes out to be at least 12 hours of sunlight in summer so backup time required after some WAPDA would come to perhaps 8-10 hours?
[/quote]

Then four batteries of 200 Ah are enough.

But still in 200000 its difficult

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#12

Lead acid batteries can either charge or discharge at a time. Both charge and discharge don't occur at the same time. Thus if your solar panels are generating 1000W and your load is 300W then remaining 700W will be going into the battery.

Now if your load becomes 1300W and solar panels are still generating 1000W then additional 300W will be provided by the battery to keep the load running. You see now the battery has begun discharging.


#13

[quote=“mysterio92, post:12, topic:22674”]

Lead acid batteries can either charge or discharge at a time. Both charge and discharge don’t occur at the same time. Thus if your solar panels are generating 1000W and your load is 300W then remaining 700W will be going into the battery.

Now if your load becomes 1300W and solar panels are still generating 1000W then additional 300W will be provided by the battery to keep the load running. You see now the battery has begun discharging.

[/quote]

Yes you are right… Actually it happens in Offgrid inverters like Axpert but in hybrid inverters like infini it has the option to for the priorities and they can do real time sharing with grid when need.

In off grid inverters like Axpert and hybrid inverters like infini .once they charge the batteries then they donot use them again and again. They just use them when there is not enough solar power to satisfy your load

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#14

[quote=“mysterio92, post:12, topic:22674”]

Lead acid batteries can either charge or discharge at a time. Both charge and discharge don’t occur at the same time. Thus if your solar panels are generating 1000W and your load is 300W then remaining 700W will be going into the battery.

Now if your load becomes 1300W and solar panels are still generating 1000W then additional 300W will be provided by the battery to keep the load running. You see now the battery has begun discharging.

[/quote]

Charging and discharging doesnt occur in them…dont worry about that

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For this system i will recommend you Axpert 5kva MVS .


#15

first thing no battery will charge and discharge same time dry or wet.

MK is also have option of priority so that is not a big difference. major difference between infini and MK is that Infini transfers load to solar as it becomes available in the mornign gradually while MK will just shift whole load that can utilize batteries if the solar power is less than load. but a good additional control can handle this to use wapda is such cases. my setup of MK ran excellently well without issues. I did got my batteries damaged but those were from wrong utilization of them.


#16

load of 6 Fans, 8 Tubelights, 1 Fridge, 1 LED TV. would roughly come to 1000W ... it may be lesser as you wont use everything at the same time but having a little spare room is always recommended, you can use the excess for running a juicer or make milkshake or even run a washing machine in morning and afternoon times using same load, as its still excess power..

Basics

to get 1000W power from solar, you would need - A ups/inverter capable of at least 1500W. not 1500VA....solar panels ..frames.. batteries,.. wiring..

1 - Panels of atleast 2000W, as sunlight is variable in all times of day and peak power is between 10am to 3pm, at all other times you would get less light and thus less power, sop to not only sustain a constant 1000W, plus charge batteries, but also be able to secure enough light in morning and eve, 2000W should be your target. that alone would cost you around 2 lac including installation. in case you go lower, then reduce your consumption as well. a fridge alone could go as high as 400W, exclude the fridge or run it on peak power hours i.e continuous 5-6 free power hours and rest on wapda and you can manage your load in 1500W panels or less.

2 - a hybrid inverter with your requirement of grid tie or grid feed, in your budget is impossible. infini is the cheapest option and that alone costs over 1.1 lac. an Axpert MKS 3Kva inverter is around 50-60k, and even though its not a true hybrid, nor is it good at harvesting max energy from solar panels, it does the job fairly well for what you require.

3 - the cheapest alternate is the simplest one.. panels connected to Controller to batteries and ups... if you already have a ups and batteries, your cost goes a lot down.. a good controller would be around 30k, including option for future expansion as well. it will also get more power from panels than either MKS or even infini.. it will prolong your battery life, and run everything connected to your ups all day.

4 - the only constant in the entire scenario is the frames and installation plus wiring.. since your load is small, you can easily do away with 16mm DC wires, and the rest can be well managed with either 3/29 or 7/29 if 3/29 isnt good quality copper wire. the quality of wire used is the most important thing.. save money on this and you suffer after 3 years times, even earlier. since this is going to last you at-least a good 7-8 years + time, so wiring should be the best quality you can afford. frames for mounting panels would cost between 4-5k for a 2 panel mount. add up all these prices and installation alone can easily go around 25-30k. since this is not going to change on yearly basis like batteries, thus investing on these is critical as a one time expense.

Notes:

A - a panel of 200W will most time provide not more than 150W. it can go a lot down, but rarely higher, consider the total amount of power you need and add 40% to it and thats how much watts panels you need. 60% is average efficiency of panels on the whole day.

B - as long as you have solar connected to your controller to ups / inverter, all day solar will charge your batteries and keep them fully charged, and will provide power to you house all day and even charge your batteries when wapda comes back from load shedding as ups will not charge battery from wapda, solar will. so long term wapda bill reduction as well as free power as well as battery life prolonged from just the controller battery ups system. this is the best option hat comes in your buget.. latter on you can add more panels as you can afford them, as well as add a hybrid inverter next year when budget allows, your current setup will remain the same, only swapping the ups for inverter and even your controller will keep running smoothly along with the new hybrid inverter.

C - Consider replacing your tubelights with good quality LED lights to significantly reduce your load, this will also help in winter when solar power generation is minimal, and while your fridge will run less, and no fans, tube lights will consume around 10x more power than led lights. these cost effective measures can optimise your load buget and investment.


#17

Thanks for the responses everyone. Highly appreciated.


#18

@farhan_ds I have a question regarding your note B. Standard UPS is configured to use grid electricity so how can it be configured to use solar power all day? Do one have to do it manually (switch off the breaker etc.)?


#19

Does a non solar ups draws current from battery too when disconnected from wapda if solar terminals are also connected with battery coming from charge controller


#20

Yes ups will draw current from the battery even if solar is available