Solar in daytime and Wapda+battery at night Setup suggestions

Hi,

I have a 2000VA 24V Modified sinewave inverter with 2 175AH batteries.

My daytime usage is upto 500 watts. (Upto 3 fans+ few lights and laptops). I would like to use solar in the day time to run these and use mainline to charge batteries. At night I would like to use wapda and batteries. at night usage is around 800 watts.

Can some please suggest:

1-How to set this up, equipment requires, cost

2- Suggest professional, shops where I can get these components and installation help in Rawalpindi

3- Does this setup make sense

sending this to wapda so they can also charge you for solar, because the sun rays which directly or in directly reflect over pakistan land is the property of Gov of pakistan and its use is payable by tax which is 1 hundred million dollars for a day :D

[quote=“MrKamran, post:2, topic:21880”]

sending this to wapda so they can also charge you for solar, because the sun rays which directly or in directly reflect over pakistan land is the property of Gov of pakistan and its use is payable by tax which is 1 hundred million dollars for a day :D

[/quote]

I am guessing the sarcasm is on "Why would I use wapda when solar is free", I was guessing I will need even more panels to charge batteries as well as run 500 watt appliances.

anyone knows how much will it cost for 2500 watts setup? i was looking at ebay and the price for (250x4)1000 watts solar panel from china is around 1500USD with free shipping to pakistan! how good are these solar panels?

what additional cost should i keep in mind beside solar panels?

^ too expensive... here 1000W x100 = 100000 rs... 1500$= 150000 and no warranty claim

Lots of wiring,

Charge controller

Batteries,

and existing ups if not going to a hybrid solar inverter.

[quote=“forum, post:, topic:”]

Hi,

I have a 2000VA 24V Modified sinewave inverter with 2 175AH batteries.

My daytime usage is upto 500 watts. (Upto 3 fans+ few lights and laptops). I would like to use solar in the day time to run these and use mainline to charge batteries. At night I would like to use wapda and batteries. at night usage is around 800 watts.

Can some please suggest:

1-How to set this up, equipment requires, cost

2- Suggest professional, shops where I can get these components and installation help in Rawalpindi

3- Does this setup make sense

[/quote]

you would need around minimum of 800W of panels.. more the merrier.

setting up requires knowlege of what ups system you already have and what would you be willing to upgrade fom it if required.

further requirement is same as above user.

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:6, topic:21880”]

you would need around minimum of 800W of panels.. more the merrier.

setting up requires knowlege of what ups system you already have and what would you be willing to upgrade fom it if required.

further requirement is same as above user.

[/quote]

Thanks. Inverter is Homage HAX 2002.

yes , you will be needing 800 watts solar sheets, which will result in 600 watts in average situations. 500 will be used by your appliances, and rest 100 watts can charge your battery full in about 6 to 8 hours.

you will be needing 1 lac 20 thousand budget roughly.

[quote=“forum, post:7, topic:21880”]

Thanks. Inverter is Homage HAX 2002.

[/quote]

whatever your ups is., you need to turn off the ups in day time as local ups donot always work well with solar power and may fry your battery..

you would be best served by manually shutting down the ups in early morning and turning it on at night.. use an alarm in your mobile. i do the same.. will save you cost of buying a switch, ..

[quote=“forum, post:, topic:”]

Hi,

I have a 2000VA 24V Modified sinewave inverter with 2 175AH batteries.

My daytime usage is upto 500 watts. (Upto 3 fans+ few lights and laptops). I would like to use solar in the day time to run these and use mainline to charge batteries. At night I would like to use wapda and batteries. at night usage is around 800 watts.

Can some please suggest:

1-How to set this up, equipment requires, cost

2- Suggest professional, shops where I can get these components and installation help in Rawalpindi

3- Does this setup make sense

[/quote]

ALHAMDOLILLAH m using this , not only in day time but 24 hours most of the time .

There is no need to charge the batteries IF u r planning to use wapda in night , the batteries should b charged SO SO to maintain some state of charge ( SOC ) .

it is advised that you Dont charge your batteries from WAPDA , but use the WAPDA directly , this will cost you less . And there is no sense of charging batteries IF you are using the WAPDA in night and solar in Day time . , for day time the solar panels will handle the charging and in night you will use WAPDA directly from the utility lines .

in your scenario u would like to use solar in day time load is 400 watts , for this you need to put minimum of 700 to 1000 watts of panels , i would suggest the POLY one , not the mono . rest the choice is yours .

always get the panels with warranty.

Second thing you need is the charge controller ,

ordinary PWM charge controller will work IF YOU ARE INSTALLING ATLEAST 900 WATTS OF PANELS ,

and

sophisticated high end Charge controller known as MPPT will work great even the panels are of 700 watts only . but there is a price difference between PWM and MPPT .

there are other methods too in which you can SAFELY eliminate the charge controller form your setup but for this you need to have some knowledge of these gadgets and electronix as well . So it is not advised in your case .

u said u r running inverter on 24 volts so it is also advised that you go for solar panels made for 24 volts system and not for 12 volts (12 volts panels will also work in series but you will loose some power and framing cost would another issue for you )

because i have both the setups on 2 locations , one at home and one at my farm / lands and i found the 24 volts system is more efficient and less power / line losses .

for your setup , u will need 30 to 40 amps PWM charge controller (with warranty) around Rs : ten thousand to 14 thousand .

wiring cost depends on the location but it is roughly will b somewhere between 1000 to 4000 Rs including connectors / wires / tie clips etc .

Framing for solar panel would cost you around 2500 per panel of 24 volts having 72 cells in it .

if u go for aluminium frame it will cost double .

this is one time investment and u can enjoy the FREE electricity for a long time in sha ALLAH .

IF your inverter is not a sine wave one so be careful in using on sensitive untis like PC / LEDs etc .

solar panels rates are different depends upon the brand / type and quality .

roughly china made POLY Crystalline panels are 70 rupees per watt .

56000 Rs for 800 watts panels

The total will b

56000 Panels + 14000 charge controller + 4000 wiring + 7500 framing (in case u r using 300 watts panel X 3) + 2000 extra for bla and bla :)

Total = 83500 Rs

Good Luck .

love to help if u need advice .

m based in karachi .

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:9, topic:21880”]

whatever your ups is., you need to turn off the ups in day time as local ups donot always work well with solar power and may fry your battery..

you would be best served by manually shutting down the ups in early morning and turning it on at night.. use an alarm in your mobile. i do the same.. will save you cost of buying a switch, ..

[/quote]

Thank you for help , and valuable suggestions. Don't I need my UPS to stay on to convert DC to AC?

[quote="nadeem5476, post:10, topic:21880"]

ALHAMDOLILLAH m using this , not only in day time but 24 hours most of the time .

There is no need to charge the batteries IF u r planning to use wapda in night , the batteries should b charged SO SO to maintain some state of charge ( SOC ) .

it is advised that you Dont charge your batteries from WAPDA , but use the WAPDA directly , this will cost you less . And there is no sense of charging batteries IF you are using the WAPDA in night and solar in Day time . , for day time the solar panels will handle the charging and in night you will use WAPDA directly from the utility lines .

in your scenario u would like to use solar in day time load is 400 watts , for this you need to put minimum of 700 to 1000 watts of panels , i would suggest the POLY one , not the mono . rest the choice is yours .

always get the panels with warranty.

Second thing you need is the charge controller ,

ordinary PWM charge controller will work IF YOU ARE INSTALLING ATLEAST 900 WATTS OF PANELS ,

and

sophisticated high end Charge controller known as MPPT will work great even the panels are of 700 watts only . but there is a price difference between PWM and MPPT .

there are other methods too in which you can SAFELY eliminate the charge controller form your setup but for this you need to have some knowledge of these gadgets and electronix as well . So it is not advised in your case .

u said u r running inverter on 24 volts so it is also advised that you go for solar panels made for 24 volts system and not for 12 volts (12 volts panels will also work in series but you will loose some power and framing cost would another issue for you )

because i have both the setups on 2 locations , one at home and one at my farm / lands and i found the 24 volts system is more efficient and less power / line losses .

for your setup , u will need 30 to 40 amps PWM charge controller (with warranty) around Rs : ten thousand to 14 thousand .

wiring cost depends on the location but it is roughly will b somewhere between 1000 to 4000 Rs including connectors / wires / tie clips etc .

Framing for solar panel would cost you around 2500 per panel of 24 volts having 72 cells in it .

if u go for aluminium frame it will cost double .

this is one time investment and u can enjoy the FREE electricity for a long time in sha ALLAH .

IF your inverter is not a sine wave one so be careful in using on sensitive untis like PC / LEDs etc .

solar panels rates are different depends upon the brand / type and quality .

roughly china made POLY Crystalline panels are 70 rupees per watt .

56000 Rs for 800 watts panels

The total will b

56000 Panels + 14000 charge controller + 4000 wiring + 7500 framing (in case u r using 300 watts panel X 3) + 2000 extra for bla and bla :)

Total = 83500 Rs

Good Luck .

love to help if u need advice .

m based in karachi .

[/quote]

Thank you for sparing time for such a detailed answer. Jazak Allah.

[quote=“nadeem5476, post:10, topic:21880”]

ALHAMDOLILLAH m using this , not only in day time but 24 hours most of the time .

There is no need to charge the batteries IF u r planning to use wapda in night , the batteries should b charged SO SO to maintain some state of charge ( SOC ) .

it is advised that you Dont charge your batteries from WAPDA , but use the WAPDA directly , this will cost you less . And there is no sense of charging batteries IF you are using the WAPDA in night and solar in Day time . , for day time the solar panels will handle the charging and in night you will use WAPDA directly from the utility lines .

in your scenario u would like to use solar in day time load is 400 watts , for this you need to put minimum of 700 to 1000 watts of panels , i would suggest the POLY one , not the mono . rest the choice is yours .

always get the panels with warranty.

Second thing you need is the charge controller ,

ordinary PWM charge controller will work IF YOU ARE INSTALLING ATLEAST 900 WATTS OF PANELS ,

and

sophisticated high end Charge controller known as MPPT will work great even the panels are of 700 watts only . but there is a price difference between PWM and MPPT .

there are other methods too in which you can SAFELY eliminate the charge controller form your setup but for this you need to have some knowledge of these gadgets and electronix as well . So it is not advised in your case .

u said u r running inverter on 24 volts so it is also advised that you go for solar panels made for 24 volts system and not for 12 volts (12 volts panels will also work in series but you will loose some power and framing cost would another issue for you )

...................................
[/quote]

@nadeem5476 also mention which solar panel brand is best or you are using , giving best results

[quote=“forum, post:11, topic:21880”]

Thank you for help , and valuable suggestions. Don't I need my UPS to stay on to convert DC to AC?

Thank you for sparing time for such a detailed answer. Jazak Allah.

[/quote]

when you turn off wapda, ups is automatically is running in DC to ACmode... you are not turning off your UPS.. you are only turning off your WAPDA source.. the power will come from solar and and ups in offline mode, without wapda will simply turn all the incoming dc to AC... the rest of unused power, if any, will go into charging the batteries.

1 Like

[quote=“gbaz, post:12, topic:21880”]

@nadeem5476 also mention which solar panel brand is best or you are using , giving best results

[/quote]

Brother it depends on several factors , the main thing is the budget , if the budget is hefty you can go for the following brands ,

Canadian Solar (panels over 250 watts category) .

Suntech (250+)

and if the budget is on medium side , then go for

GH solar (in poly only recommended) . with warranty

Yingli Panda series .

if the budget is low go for any Chinese brand

regarding your question , which is the best , beside the price factor it also depends on the area / and the system you r going to install .

several factors must b consider before buying , specially if you are gona install a PWM charge controller then also look keenly into the VOC (open circuit volts) and Voltage on max power .

generally people dont know about this and thus they lost precious power / money .

m using canadian solar , GH Solar , Suntech and DAQO panels on different locations .

[quote=“nadeem5476, post:14, topic:21880”]

Brother it depends on several factors , the main thing is the budget , if the budget is hefty you can go for the following brands ,

Canadian Solar (panels over 250 watts category) .

Suntech (250+)

and if the budget is on medium side , then go for

GH solar (in poly only recommended) . with warranty

Yingli Panda series .

if the budget is low go for any Chinese brand

regarding your question , which is the best , beside the price factor it also depends on the area / and the system you r going to install .

several factors must b consider before buying , specially if you are gona install a PWM charge controller then also look keenly into the VOC (open circuit volts) and Voltage on max power .

generally people dont know about this and thus they lost precious power / money .

m using canadian solar , GH Solar , Suntech and DAQO panels on different locations .

[/quote]

i have buyied the Chinese brand 150wx4 solar panels a year ago, i asked about shopkeeper what the difference between Chinese's and branded solar panels , they said nothing more then warranty . both produce same watts at same sunlight ?:o i was very much surprised to hear that. but after i have installed the panels , i not getting more the 25A at 12v system using MPPT charge controller (150wx4) panel's . you are using many brand's , is the power producing of branded solar panels are same ? mean only half of total system :D ....

[quote=“gbaz, post:15, topic:21880”]

i have buyied the Chinese brand 150wx4 solar panels a year ago, i asked about shopkeeper what the difference between Chinese's and branded solar panels , they said nothing more then warranty . both produce same watts at same sunlight ? :o i was very much surprised to hear that. but after i have installed the panels , i not getting more the 25A at 12v system using MPPT charge controller (150wx4) panel's . you are using many brand's , is the power producing of branded solar panels are same ? mean only half of total system :D ....

[/quote]

No dear they are not the same , as the main difference between them are the quality of silicon wafer thus the temp coefficient is practically different . i have experienced the same , with one degree increase in temp will drop the watts ub different ratios, reputable companies like canadia and Daqo are sincere in what they have written in the data specs of the panels .

For example GH Solar's specs mentioned that on one degree hike in temp in Celsius will drop the POWER by 0.2 watts but in practical that is 0.45 !!

and in C/solar this is correct what they wrote in specs .

output depends on many many factors , including the following

The angle of panels ?

the solar radiance ? the reflective radiance / refractive radiance and direct one .

The air temp n humidity present in the air .

The wires used in wiring the panels and charge controller .

The Pmax of panel you are using and the charge controller specs , (in your case MPPT is used it is not an issue, but in PWM charge controllers one has to know this) .

please keep in mind that solar panels give about 70 to 80 percent output in NORMAL sunshine most of the time , but in a part of day it can give y ou 110 percent too . these days in Karachi climate my panels give me 110 percent output between 2:15 pm to 2:45 pm .

please provide ur solar panels data . Including max power rated , Voc , Isc , Vmp , Imp as well as temp cof.

your panels should give you atleast 450 watts AVERAGE . well lets see .

More over Do let me know that how you had measured that you are getting 300 watts ??

Do measure the current with Dc amps meter running from the panels to charge controller , PLUS measure the current from charge controller to batteries .

Keep in mind that when you measure the current the battery must be atleast 60 percent empty OR your readings will not b correct .

good luck .

well very easy and simple to turn off wapda daytime.. The EP solar CC gives you option to connect your DC load of 12/24V directly to it apart from the battery connection.

Just use a dc12/24 relay to this LOAD point and use relay to control your wapda to UPS. Daytime, the relay will turn off the power and night time it will connect it to UPS. does not matter which UPS you use.

[quote=“gbaz, post:15, topic:21880”]

i have buyied the Chinese brand 150wx4 solar panels a year ago, i asked about shopkeeper what the difference between Chinese's and branded solar panels , they said nothing more then warranty . both produce same watts at same sunlight ? :o i was very much surprised to hear that. but after i have installed the panels , i not getting more the 25A at 12v system using MPPT charge controller (150wx4) panel's . you are using many brand's , is the power producing of branded solar panels are same ? mean only half of total system :D ....

[/quote]

you posted this before i think..

for your 600W panels, you will max get 500W..out of that sun light temp and other factors mentioned above will result in further power loss.. also, in winter you would be lucky to get more than 150W out of it because of no sun.. proper power will start in end of february.

panles make little difference.. its the wiring that is most comonly the cause of problems.. also 12v system is a major power defficient setup.. step up to 24V or 48V and you would get almost 1/5th more power for free from same setup if there is no problem in wiring... wiring makes all the difference.