Renewable energy (Solar, Wind, Hydro) Discussion thread

Although we have do have Solar Panel price thread, but this thread of will be used for the following

  1. General discussion about Renewable energy (Solar, Wind, Hydro)
  2. Any Renewable realated projects you want to build e.g UPS + Solar or Off grid living.
  3. Energy conservation discussion

or anything related to Renewable energy

Glossary of terms which will be used

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

AGM: Absorbed Glass Mat. Also sometimes called 'starved electrolyte'. A type of lead-acid battery whose electrolyte is contained within a glass mat. It is therefor an SLA, but not an FLA.
Amp: Ampere; unit of measurement for electric current named for André-Marie Ampère.
Amp Hour (Amp/hr or Ah): The current potential of a battery or battery bank in reference to an hour. Usually measured by the "20 hour rate" standard.
Array or PV Array: A group of two or more PV's connected in series or parallel for additional Voltage or Amperage.
Battery Bank: A group of two or more batteries connected in series and or parallel to increase Voltage or Amp Hour capacity. See also: http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm
Battery Capacity: The Amp Hour rating of a battery or battery bank, usually in reference to a 20 hour rate of discharge where the ah capacity is equally divided, to the point of being dead at 10.5 volts for a 12 Volt (nominal) battery. For a 20 hour rate example, a 100 Amp Hour battery would be discharged at 100AH/20Hrs=5 Amps being drawn over 20 hours.
Battery Meter or Battery Monitor: A device for measure the charge state of the battery as best possible based on Voltage levels and current flow in and out of the battery.
Battery Temperature Sensor (BTS), a.k.a. Remote Temperature Sensor (RTS): A wired probe onto a battery for the purpose of detecting the temperature of the battery so that a connected device such as a charge controller or an inverter can make necessary changes in reference to the battery charge voltage.
Charge Controller (CC): An electronic regulator for controlling/converting array output to charge batteries. See also: http://www.windsun.com/ChargeControls/ChargeCont.htm
Deep Cycle: Battery capable of being repeatedly drawn down 50%-80% of charge and re-charged to ~100%.
Depth Of Discharge (DOD): Amount of power drained from a battery during usage and expressed as a percentage of the battery's total capacity adding that it is the reciprocal of SOC.100% DOD = DEAD, 0% DOD = FULL.
DMM, (Digital Multimeter): An electronic instrument used to measure various electrical parameters such as voltage, current, and resistance.
DVM, (Digital Voltmeter): An electronic instrument used to measure voltage only.
Electrolyte: Conductive fluid in a battery. It is comprised mainly of sulfuric acid.
Feed-in Tariff: A guaranteed payment usually with the force of law for each kwh you generate and feed into the grid.
FLA: Flooded Lead Acid. Generic term for 'wet cell' batteries. On this Forum, usually refers to Deep Cycle cells suitable for Renewable Energy.
Gel or Gel Cell: A type of battery whose electrolyte is contained in a gelatinous substance.
Grid: The distribution network for utility supplied power. Usually in reference to Grid-Tie.
Grid-Tie Inverter (GT): As defined for inverter, but specifically designed to feed AC to an active utility grid. Some versions also have battery back-up capability.
HAWT: Horizontal Axis Wind Turbine.
Hydrometer: A device for measuring the Specific Gravity (SG) of a fluid, as in battery electrolyte.
Imp: Current at maximum power. The most Amps a solar panel will produce under normal operating conditions. The "I" comes from an old term for current; Intensity.
Inverter: A device for changing DC Voltage into AC Voltage. See also: http://www.solar-electric.com/solar_...r_electric.htm
Inverter/charger: As defined for Inverter, but with utility or generator input for a built-in supplemental battery charger.
Isc: Current under short-circuit conditions. The peak current a solar panel can produce with its output shorted. Used for calculating wire size and circuit protection ratings. The "I" comes from an old term for current; Intensity.
Kilowatt (kW): One thousand Watts.
Kilowatt hour (kW hour or kWh): One thousand Watt hours.
Load: On this forum, a reference to 'end use' devices such as lights, refrigerators, et cetera. Anything that consumes electrical power.
Micro-hydro or Micro-hydro Turbine: Electro-mechanical device for generating electricity from flowing water.
MPPT: Maximum Power Point Tracking. A type of Charge Controller method that adjusts its output to achieve the most efficient charge rate possible from varying input Voltage. Some are able to change the higher PV Voltage into a lower System Voltage we refer to as down-converting.
MSW: "Modified Sine Wave". Correctly, Modified Square Wave. Refers to an inverter whose output waveform is incremental square-wave 'steps' that 'mimic' a sine wave. While usually less expensive than Sine Wave inverters, they have limitations in that some devices do not work properly or at all.
Ohm: Unit of electrical resistance named for Georg Simon Ohm.
Power Factor (PF): The ratio of real power (Watts) to apparent power (Volt-Amperes). PF = W/V-A. Although important to the efficiency of a load (and thus to conservation) this information is rarely included in manufacturer's specifications and must be measured by the user. Loads of a purely resistive type (heaters, incandescent bulbs) will have a PF of 1.0. Loads that include inductive or capacitive elements will have a lower PF.
PV: Photovoltaic (electric solar panel). Converts sunlight into electricity.
PWM: Pulse Width Modulation. A type of Charge Controller method that 'pulses' its output as needed to charge and then maintain battery Voltage.
Renewable Energy (RE): A reference to natural sources of power that are non-polluting in the act of generating the power.
Resistance: A.K.A. ohmic resistance, a property of a conductor by virtue of which the passage of current is opposed, causing electric energy to be transformed into heat equal to the voltage across the conductor divided by the current flowing in the conductor: usually measured in ohms.
RV/Marine "Deep Cycle": A 'hybrid' battery design whose plates are a combination of the thick 'true' Deep Cycle and the more porous SLI type. Not the best choice for Renewable Energy applications, but better than an SLI.
Shunt: A device with known, fixed, temperature-stable resistance wired in series between batteries and inverter to facilitate the use of a Battery Meter. It allows a small, proportional amount of current to flow through the meter, enabling it to register the total current flowing to or from the batteries.
SLA: Sealed Lead Acid. As FLA, but without the ability to open and inspect cells through 'caps'. Technically, AGM's are a type of SLA.
SLI: Starting, Lighting, and Ignition. Standard 'automotive' type battery. Not really suitable for Renewable Energy use.
Specific Gravity (SG): A weight ratio comparing one to another. In the case of lead acid batteries it is the ratio of the electrolyte made up of sulfuric acid and water compared to straight water. The higher the ratio, the more the acid in the electrolyte.
State Of Charge (SOC): Amount of power available from a battery at any given point in its usage cycle and expressed as a percentage of the battery's total capacity adding that it is the reciprocal of DOD. 100% SOC = FULL, 0% SOC = DEAD.
Sine Wave: aka, TSW and PSW. Refers to an inverter whose output waveform is close to that of an ideal sine wave by having its total harmonic distortion under 5%, the same as found on utility grid power or from a generator. Some refer to these Sine Wave inverters as True Sine Wave (TSW) or Pure Sine Wave (PSW), but that is a bit of a misnomer as the waveform is not true or pure.
Tracker, Solar Tracker, or Tracking Mount: a mounting for a PV Array which 'follows the sun', keeping the array in best possible alignment with solar radiation. There are two basic types: single axis, which follows the sun's movement through the day, and dual axis, which also adjusts for different angles per the time of year.
Tubular Plate Battery: Deep cycle battery used chiefly in Europe for renewable energy and backup applications. For stationary applications, if the batteries are of the flooded lead acid type, they are called "OPzS", while VRLA versions are called "OPzV". When used in forklifts and other mobile applications the batteries are called "PzS".
VAWT: Vertical Axis Wind Turbine.
Vmp: Voltage at Maximum Power. The output Voltage of a PV when it is at its maximum current.
Voc: Voltage Open Circuit. The output Voltage of a PV under no load.
Volt: Unit of electrical potential named for Alessandro Volta.
VRLA: Valve Regulated Lead-Acid. A type of SLA.
Watt: Unit of electrical power named for James Watt.
Watt hour (Wh): Quantity of electrical power as in one Watt used for one hour or any mathematical equivalent.
Wind Generator or Wind Turbine: Electro-mechanical device for generating electricity from moving air current.
[/quote]

http://forum.solar-electric.com/showthread.php?6136-Glossary

Are these renewable energy equipments custom free if you import from outside?

[quote=“armada, post:2, topic:21295”]

Are these renewable energy equipments custom free if you import from outside?

[/quote]

According to these documents yes.

http://www.aedb.org/Downloads/exem.pdf and http://www.fbr.gov.pk/SROsImportA.aspx

So its mean we should import these solar items ourselves. I am interested in solar but upfront cost is making me stay away from this. Plus what farhan is saying about cabling. That thing specifically stopped me to think about solar

Solar panels charge controllers wind turbines all related equipments will be free of any customs changes expect little duty charges....

@yousaf why solar system is expensive in Pakistan? While I looked up at Internet complete solar kit is around 250 to 300 $

[quote=", post:4, topic:21295"]

So its mean we should import these solar items ourselves. I am interested in solar but upfront cost is making me stay away from this. Plus what farhan is saying about cabling. That thing specifically stopped me to think about solar

[/quote]

Yes, many people have imported their own Panels and related equipment. For upfront cost you can start with Large MPPT controller and a 1-2 panels. You can add more panels later on whenever your budget permits.

Thick cables are only required if you are using PWM type of charge controller with a large array, which in my view is just waste resources, both your money and solar output.

Array larger than 400W must use a MPPT charge controller. What it does, it allow you wire your panel in series for voltage upto 150V( normal MPPT charge controller) or 250V-600V(only 2-3 models do so). and convert this extra voltage to charging current. This way you can use a cable which good enough for carrying current upto 9Amp (the maximum IMP of most Solar is much less than this) with just 2-3% voltage loss(usual expected voltage loss, you can reduce it further with higher gauge cable but that is not recommended).

If solar panels are wired in series the VOC is added up and allowance is given for increased voltage in winter. The maximum current from Solar panels to the Charge controller is the IMP of single panel.

e.g a panel has VOC 45 and IMp 5.43.The distance from you solar panels to charge controller is 20m :

you can wire 3 of these panels in series for a total of 136.2V VOC and Imp for the string will be 5.43A while VMP will be 113V. the wire sized required will be 2.5mm2 or 14AWG.

which is many times cheaper than 70mm2 or 00 AWG required if you wired these panels in parallel with a PWM charger!! http://www.solar-wind.co.uk/cable-sizing-DC-cables.html

For multiple string you can use either of these calculators http://www.midnitesolar.com/sizingTool/index.php or http://www.morningstarcorp.com/string-calculator/

[quote=“armada, post:5, topic:21295”]

Solar panels charge controllers wind turbines all related equipments will be free of any customs changes expect little duty charges.... @yousaf why solar system is expensive in Pakistan? While I looked up at Internet complete solar kit is around 250 to 300 $

[/quote]

Solar Installer are also Pakistanis and like all Pakistani shopkeeper they try to keep their profit margin as high as possible. B) but it depends on Installer to installer. some of those who don't offer any warranty , install inferior products but still charge higher prices. ^_^ e.g instead of installing a MPPT charge controller they will install a PWM charge controller with a thick heavy expensive wire costing thousands of rupees. Wasting your money. ;)

I personally recommend making a paper design, get it verified from people who are actually using solar panels (some of those since 1980's) and proceeding further.

Please explain the terms like VOC, VMP, IMP etc.

Also please always try to give an example like in the above post. Example helps a lot. :)

[quote=“mysterio92, post:8, topic:21295”]

Please explain the terms like VOC, VMP, IMP etc.

Also please always try to give an example like in the above post. Example helps a lot. :)

[/quote]

Imp: Current at maximum power. The most Amps a solar panel will produce under normal operating conditions. The "I" comes from an old term for current; Intensity.

Isc: Current under short-circuit conditions. The peak current a solar panel can produce with its output shorted. Used for calculating wire size and circuit protection ratings. The "I" comes from an old term for current; Intensity.

Vmp: Voltage at Maximum Power. The output Voltage of a PV when it is at its maximum current.

Voc: Voltage Open Circuit. The output Voltage of a PV under no load.

Hopefully this helps. :)

You ave got questions in PM too.. :) yiunhavdnt received?

[quote=“koder, post:10, topic:21295”]

You ave got questions in PM too.. :) yiunhavdnt received?

[/quote]

Sorry for late reply I was busy and wasn't online since you posted this.

UPS + Solar Panel wiring diagram

Keep solar system aside please and come on wind energy system @yousaf420 can you tell us what parts of country are best for to run wind turbines wind speed wise?

[quote=“armada, post:13, topic:21295”]

Keep solar system aside please and come on wind energy system @yousaf465 can you tell us what parts of country are best for to run wind turbines wind speed wise?

[/quote]

Some areas around dinga sharif are also included B) windmap.jpg

This pdf is more detailed version of above map http://www.nrel.gov/wind/pdfs/final1-1-1pwr50pk.pdf

Now you quoting me USAID graphs seriously? i don't believe on both of you, i guess i better get my own weather station and measure the wimd speed for few days

[quote=“armada, post:16, topic:21295”]

Now you quoting me USAID graphs seriously? i don't believe on both of you, i guess i better get my own weather station and measure the wimd speed for few days

[/quote]

I'm not quoting USAID, I'm quoting NREL and aedb. check url.

armada building an anemometer, that could be nice project.

which controller you will be using ? Ardunio or PIC ? how high it will be ?

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

Not on weed!!

;)[/quote]

Pre-made wireless weather station Davis or LA Crosse

https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/1701705984/h57AE921A/

(wasn't able to post the image)

[quote=“armada, post:18, topic:21295”]

Pre-made wireless weather station Davis or LA Crosse

[/quote]

Now I understand what @attock meant with his photo.

That thingy (Pre-made wireless weather station Davis) cost $463 :o how many of those you have got in your pocket right now... :lol: