Query regarding ups!

I have read somewhere that ups do increase your bill units.Its like running a 1 to 1.5 ton Ac .. Whats the monthly cost? Yu can tell me in units.

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This is Off topic (my specialty), but I like your figures

Baki ke stats bhi share karo na kabhi.. you can pm me *winks*

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It takes in power when charging the battery, the actual consumption depends on the UPS efficiency, the battery capacity, the backup load hooked on and the amount of load-shedding. Mine uses around 130 Watts when charging in hour-after-hour madness in summer (measured using a power meter off ebay). Air conditioners take more than 1.5 Kilo-Watts. 1 Wapda unit is consumed by a 1KW appliance in 1 hour.

I have read somewhere that ups do increase your bill units.Its like running a 1 to 1.5 ton Ac .. Whats the monthly cost? Yu can tell me in units. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don no abut other upss but in APC brand i can give u one example of 1.5 KVA which is mostly used at homes .

UPS Details:

SUA1500RM2U

VA Capacity = 1440 VA
Watt Capacity = 980 Watts
Battery Charger Power = 144 Watts
Efficiency at Full Load = 95%

Total Current Draw without load and completely discharged batteries = 8.96Amps

If the UPS is connected to the 80 AH battery, the UPS will consume 8 Amps of current to charge the completely discharged battery. If the battery is charged fully by the UPS, then the unit will consume minimal power.

Please remember that the UPS charges its battery in order to provide power in the event of power failure to the connected equipment ..... The Battery Charging Power is delivered to the Connected equipment when there is no power from the WAPDA ..... So it is equivalent to the power consumption which is drawn by the connected equipment when there is power from the WAPDA. I hope that this makes sense to determine why the electricity bill usage is high after using the UPS.

Internal power consumption is equal to the inefficiency times the Watt rating at full load.

For Example APC 5 KVA ONLINE UPS (full load) is rated at 3500 watts and 92% efficiency. The internal consumption is equal to 3500 watts X (100%-92%)=280 watts.

A secondary spec which can be used as a "base value" to calculate internal consumption is the "Heat Dissipation" . It mirrors how much real power (watts) is being consumed by the ups which is converted directly to heat:

If u google SUA5000RMI5U, its brochure will tell u the thermal dissipation spec is 430 BTU/hr. If you take that figure and multiply by .000283 (to convert BTU/hr to Kilowatts) ....... 1 (btu / hour) = 0.00029307107 kilowatts .......... that gives you a value of around 125 watts. Based on the "Electrical" spec of 96% efficiency ......... the SUA5000 @ 4000 Watts/5000VA would consume about 150 to 160 watts by itself at full load. I believe the difference (about 20 - 25 watts) is made up by electrical energy converted to mechanical to spin the fans.

Its clear that this spec is only concerned with the UPS batteries being at proper float voltage, so one can then take the battery charging circuit wattage rating and add it to this Thermal Dissipation spec conversion to get the maximum power that would ever be consumed by the UPS itself.

In case of parallel scneario .... the UPS also charges all of the batteries in parallel and treats the UPS and external battery pack batteries as one giant 48VDC string in case of 4 batteries wala UPS ....... since they are part of the same bus. The UPS will not use more power but it will take longer to charge.

I DON'T NO IF ANY OV ABOVE DETAILS ANSWERED UR QUESTION BUT I THINK ITS WORTH WHILE TO TELL UR OPINION .........

Instead of the copy paste.. here is a simpler explanation..

Scenario:

lets consider Wapda power to be 100%.. ie 100 units..

a ups will take wapda power in, and pass it out to the home appliances when wapda is on.. simple as that..almost 99% in out..

at the same time, ups will take extra wapda power to run itself.. which is dependent on the transformer kit and other components of the ups..could be as low as 20W to as high as 300W just to run itself.

further more it will take extra power to charge the batteries.. this power consumption is based on 2 factors..

1 - how much batteries are discharged and need power to charge them fully.

2 - the PF of the ups , how efficiently it converts that power to DC.

Power conversions and losses:

At wapda level:

most of local / desi brands have a PF of 0.6 to 0.65. good brands like cyberpower vary between 0.6-0.75.. higher end models may go upto 0.8-0.85.. meaning for every 100 units of wapda consumed in charging, , between 60-85 units are converted in DC Amps.. this is where there is maximum loss of energy and high energy bill.. the PF... the bigger and more drained the battery, the more current needed, the more energy wasted in power conversion.

as for APC.. to be clear, every model has a different PF.. for the 1500SUI, its 0.65.. for the 3000VA and XL models, it is 0.7-0.8-0.9 for different models.. SMD have higher conversion Efficiency, but have other issues.. so a mid level compromise is best at anything near 0.8..

the sui1500 is the most economical and near ideal home use ups as it is 24V, the only option at 24V .

At battery level:

further power loss is incurred using the same pf when in loadshedding the ups consumes battery power and converts 100unit from battery to produce between 60-90 units AC (wapda power) for running things in loadsheding (depending again on the UPS efficiency)

and the cycle goes back to step 1 when wapda comes back.

\

Role of the UPS voltage (setup):

furthermore, the role of the system voltage is of as much importance.. a 12V ups is as bad at anything than anything most bad :P...24V are bit better at handling power as well as less power loss in wiring and longer distance between ups batteries and the AC input. also better conversion of power..

48V in our scenarios are best option.. have many many advantages including capacity to handle larger loads and torque, longer battery life over 2 years and longer back and very high efficiencies.. 96V would be ideal but the cost of the setup is just too high.. 72V systems are very rare.

just for comparison, dedicated Solar inverter such as Goodwe are capable of efficiencies of those 2 step power conversions at 95% and 99% (peak)

hope this clears things up a bit in a simplified form... for further more accurate and technical details, the Elite forum members, Ijaz, Aurangzeb and Asad can contribute to this better than me..

[quote=“koder, post:, topic:”]

I have read somewhere that ups do increase your bill units.Its like running a 1 to 1.5 ton Ac .. Whats the monthly cost? Yu can tell me in units. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[/quote]

Good question. It is though difficult to tell in terms of KWH (the Wapda units). Calculating number of units depends upon many factors.

In simple words, power losses occur during battery charging and during inverter mode. Both modes have different efficiency level. Smaller UPS (1KVA to 3KVA) have low efficiency while larger units tend to be more efficient.

A rough guess is about 25-40% increased bill for the loads connected to UPS and for the number of hours the UPS runs on batteries. Again this is just a rough estimation, real figures depend upon many factors and may vary.

Always use minimum load (which are on UPS) while there is no Wapda. This will lower your bills and increase your battery life.

Actually Ive got a small setup just for 2 to 3 fans at most and 2 3 energy savers. The ups is Homage 12v and the electricity panga is 1plus on and off scene. Am receiving pretty much hefty bills in winters for some reason I don't know even though electricity load isn't more than 300watts.The meter is showing that I've consumed this much units.I ave received the bill for March and am shocked to see my consumption . ups is axiom homage 669watts and the battery is phoenix 260ah

Now this much bill and that too in winters …atleast weather has not changed yet in Abbottabad ,is the 3phase line costing me this much or what … The total load is 2 lcds and the both works for max 3 hours par day and there are few energy savers and a motor …I have installed a missile type of machine in the water tank which ppl use in boring.I dont know what will they do in the june /hot season when the fans will be switched on …There is nothing extra ordinary which is installed and there is no kunda whatsoever near my meter.Wth is wrong with it … 300units is acceptable In summers but these much units is killing my monthly budget …

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My main concern is abt the meter which the wapda has installed its 3phase and its there since many years.The wapda guy told me sir don't replace your meter its the 3phase connection which is ripping yu off!

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On your bill, there should be a Tarrif code. Can you check what is printed there?

-> Power hungry appliances in winter include Electric Heaters, Stoves, Toasters, Irons, Washing Machines (with dryer) and Fridge\Freezer (if they are old and have faulty thermostats) ... each one of these can consume around 1 KW.

-> Motors can be average consumers if they are the "TUG-OF-WAR with Municipal" type. Underground pumps are heavy consumers. I couldn't understand about the missile in your water tank?!

-> UPS doen't consume much electricity but if you battery is defective it might keep getting charged 24/7 and result in cumulative effects (check if your battery is overheating).

-> Forget about LCDS and energy savers, modern LCDs consume less than 50W maximum, half that on power-saving modes. 3 Average(24W) Energy savers running simultaneously 24 hours everyday won't cost you more than 50 units for the month.

-> Make sure your issue isn't one of deferred billing. Readers sometimes "guess" readings due to laziness. It could be that he under-estimated your reading last month and so this month it got adjusted.

-> Consider getting a plug-in meter to measure consumption of each your appliances.

-> Complain to WAPDA about fast meter. If you are successful they will probably add in another meter to gauge its performance.

Nope I don't use electric heaters,no electric stove,no toasters,iron is used for an hour in 24hours time ,washing machine max 2 times per month .. There is microwave which I use frequently even for warming up the tea,deep freezer is on 24/7 and the thermostat is on medium

No donkey pumps nothing ,its a missile type motor which is installed in boring places and I use that for 20mins per 24hours and its installed in water tank.I don’t know its name but "jaha log boring karty hain ye waha lagta ha to throw the water in pressure
Battery is top notch,it do get charged up when electricity does not go.Battery condition is good

I do check the reading ,the funny thing is meter shows that i have consumed this much units so I cannot blame wapda.I do check it on monthly basis.Am getting hefty bills since June ,in june I paid these mf"s 48k even though I dont ave any Air conditioning at home

Sorry I didn’t get it…
I ave complained them the guy visited and through some reference he told me your meter is absolutely right the thing which is of concern is that your are on 3 phase and yu pay them according to your load which is mentioned in your bill whether if u use or not but I didn’t get his theory …i am not the one in whole Pakistan who is using 3phase

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Ok, here are some more suggestions.

-> Rule out theft. Turn everything in your home off and make sure the meter is stopped, try this near early night time for maximum likelihood of having the potential thief using your electricity.

-> Check Meter speed. Get an ammeter (would require some math) or a plug-in power meter:

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Check some heavy appliance, like the fridge, for half an hour solo and compare the consumption on your ammeter and the wapda meter.

-> If your meter is indeed fast and you can't make the wapda guys see reason, ask for a new connection (say that you are renting a portion of your home and need a new connection for the occupants)

Maybe even try getting your connection degraded to single phase (doesn't make any logical sense though).

half of your bill is dues to surcharges and taxes.. cost of electrcity is much lower.. due to dec in petrol prices and new unit price reduction as well as court order on some surcharges, your bill should reduce iin next months..

have you checked that the meter eading is correct? check from bill, the date of reading, and estimate from current reading how much it would have been at that time.. meter mofo readers take over reading many times..

They always do the reading on 15 of the month .. Till now the units are 356 and few days left for the 15. Of this month.My neighbour is on single phase and he uses the air conditioning system too and when I checked his bill for the previous month it was just 2k and i always wonder wth have I installed in my place .. Am not running any factory inside my house.. Farhan what can I say abt taxes ,35 rs for ptv. Haven't seen that channel since 99 after Mush MarshalLaw eh ..meter reading is correct.

Well whats your input regarding installation of single phase connection with the existing one… The load will be minimised and i will be able to keep a good check on it.

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A1 is tariff code for Residential connections so it seems OK. But consumption of 654 units seems very high especially during this weather.

Do you have a digital 3-Phase meter ? If yes, these meters have TOD (time of day) metering. There is an internal clock inside the meter with a battery backup. When battery dies, the time gets corrupted and meter is programmed to run at full rate all the day in such a scenario when internal clock is not working.

Your UPS is not responsible for this large bill.

[quote=“APC_UPS, post:4, topic:22030”]

I have read somewhere that ups do increase your bill units.Its like running a 1 to 1.5 ton Ac .. Whats the monthly cost? Yu can tell me in units. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don no abut other upss but in APC brand i can give u one example of 1.5 KVA which is mostly used at homes .

UPS Details:

SUA1500RM2U

VA Capacity = 1440 VA

Watt Capacity = 980 Watts

Battery Charger Power = 144 Watts

Efficiency at Full Load = 95%

Total Current Draw without load and completely discharged batteries = 8.96Amps

[/quote]

Wrong calculation ^^

the batteries need atleast 28 to 36 volts to charge and in the case of complete discharged it will need 36 volts to charge it and u said 8.96 Amps to by simple watt formula W=V x A we will get

Watts = 36 X 8.96 = 322 watts of charging current and u mentioned 144 watts . how come ?

this 144 watts even out of question if we consider the battery 50 percent full so the charging volts should b around 28 to 30 volts (for 24 volts batteries as in this model of ups

) watts = 28 X 8.96 = 250 watts !!

[quote=", post:16, topic:22030"]

A1 is tariff code for Residential connections so it seems OK. But consumption of 654 units seems very high especially during this weather.

Do you have a digital 3-Phase meter ? If yes, these meters have TOD (time of day) metering. There is an internal clock inside the meter with a battery backup. When battery dies, the time gets corrupted and meter is programmed to run at full rate all the day in such a scenario when internal clock is not working.

Your UPS is not responsible for this large bill.

[/quote]

I have got this meter since 2 3 years …now a days they install that digital with that time slot thing but seriously this meter is from zardaris era maybe its too fast to handle… 2x fast than the new one

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new digital meters are too fast. if anyone is,lucky enough to have the ring meters, sell your kidney but donot get that replaced..

our digital 3 phase is rnning too fast more than the single phase one.. but single phase is now on solar so load is almost zero on that, only night time is on it.. the 3 phase is only running a freezer and an over and an iron... still bill in 2-4 k range

the surcharges and taxes include, ST. GST. FED, NJS, PTV Fee. FUel adjustment , and any other abreviation lesco can think of..

i believe a Lesco trained monkey jumps on the keyboard, and the first words that come out become our next tax/surcharge :)

Haha !! Neelam jhelum surcharge 10percent lol .. Thats why am not taking panga with them the new is even more faster .. Am going for single phase too and this will be also there but the load will be shifted on single phase.Its not only lesco but the whole frigging Wapda senior monkeys involved in this above all them is that jahil Minister.

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