PSA: Dry batteries

Update : 3

i get over 100s of PM per month related to Energy problems.. which is very tiring to reply to all, but still i try my best..

thats why Just for general info.. the theory , story and myths about dry batteries

General info about dry batteries

1 - dry batteries are meant for long term storage.. over 5 years to 12 years.. that is why they are expensive

2 - Dry batteries life is determined by the type of technology and material used in it. Typically, 2 main types are made, Gel and AGM. gel have almost 1.5-2x more,life than AGM.. they are also 2x more expensive than AGM as well..

3 - AGM have a general life cycle of 5-7 years.. gel have a life cycle of 8-12 years. hence the price difference.

4 - further enhancing the life of the batteries, is the type of internal architecture.. tubular and flat plate..both gel and AGM can be tubular or flat plate, and hence there is a minor impact on their life increased as well based on the type used.. again, price is different for both types.

Advantages

1 - they have a very long life compared to our local desi batteries

2 - they are deep cycle, meaning they can give much more backup before damaging themselves.. almost upto 60-70% DoD compared to only 10-12% Dod of local batteries.

3 - they can be charged a lot more rapidly..(Especially sacred Sun). a 100AH dry battery of Sacred sun can be charged upto max rate of 25Amps, while a 100Ah local battery should not be charged at any rate above 10amps.. thus they charge faster, and store charge a lot more.

4 - Specific models are used for specific purposes.. there are dry batteries made for large burst power like crancking and high torque loads, as well as low torque home appliances use. selection must be made based on use.

5 - they donot need any maintenance at all. and can be placed inside your own room without any leakage of gases.

6 - ideally suited for Solar panels and other alternate energy sources..

7 - High torque machines such as AC and motors can be rn on them as well..

8 - ideally suited for inverter AC at homes.

9 - come in very high capacity all the way from 15AH upto 1000AH..

Disadvantages

1 - they require a lot of care in planning and usage.

2 - They MUST BE PAIRED with a quality UPS or a charger designed for charging. otherwise like local batteries they ca be overcharged and burnt too.

3 - should use quality imported wiring or high spec local wire with them to ensure complete flow of current without loss.

4 - Must set Ups parameters or charge control to go to high float levels.. dry batteries have a much higher Float and full charge Voltage setting than local Desi batteries.. upto 14.5V.

Clearly their advantages outweigh their disadvantages..

Myths:

1 - dry battery will burn out with desi ups..

Probably yes..because these desi ups are not designed to work with dry batteries which are very sensitive to voltage and charging rates and DC output variability..

2 - Dry battery has same AH as wet battery , so power is same

its not entirely true.. also wet battery donot have their actual AH printed on them.. a 165AH Exide is actually a 135AH rebranded to 150 then rebranded to 165AH..

3 - Cycle discharge comparison

Dry batteries are deep cycle.. true deep cycle batteries can go as low as 80% of discharge and still remain functional. local batteries canot go beyond 10%.. if pushed beyond, they will be damaged.

4 - Locally made dry batteries are same as imported Dry batteries..

local companies such as homage and inverex and others have manufactured their own brands of dr batteries , some brands claim Calcium enriched..all of they hype they create is just marketing tactic.. none of them are true deep cycle.. they are just repacked wet batteries requiring no maintenance.. or "Maintenance free dry battery".. that is what they market it as, and that is exactly what is .. nothing more..

5 - All dry batteries are same for all purpose.

Absolutely no.. there are many series of dry batteries even in a same company..each series has its specific purpose and thus manufactured according to spec.. if you get an option of battery A vs B and both are priced similarly and they both have same AH, it doesnot mean A is same as B.. A could be a telecom use battery and B could be for a high torque rapid discharge battery.. using one series in place of other will not yield expected results and disappointment.. That is why there are only one type of wet battery selling in PK for decades, while each proper dry battery manufacturer makes 10-20 different series of batteries designed for a specific purpose.

6 - if i buy a gel battery it must last 15 years..

Not exactly.. all companies have different quality and manufacturing.. and many methods of mechanics, and again different price ranges and different regions.. so if you buy a cheap gel battery in tubular design with low price and from an unknown manufactures expect quite a few years less from the expected.

7 - i can use dry batteries with my XYZ ups..

yes, it will work.. but for how long, depends on the quality of the charging mechanism, the output to battery, the voltage control, and filters in the UPS. if you have a quality UPS, expect your battery to remain healthy for many many years, and run at full performance. if your UPS however is not a match for your battery, you run risk of lowering battery life significantly...

Will Update with time...!!!

Reserved for updates/...!!

Updated

Well done.

I haven't had any qualms about battery selection, but if I did, this thread would be the best place to consult! :)

Some questions:

I have bought this battery (KSB-12 12V165Ah) yesterday for 28K with 6 months warranty. I tried searching for this battery/manufacturer online but nothing came up. So any one of you came accross this battery before? if so then what kind of battery is this & and what to expect from it while its on the job?

After hooking up the battery to the inverter, the inverter charged it only for about 5 to 10 minute so I turned my inverter on in case power outage. but there wasn't no outage for next 3 and half hrs. So the battery had 3.5hrs of first charge (if it actually was its first charge :wacko: you know, you can never be sure in PK).

I also noted a curve on either side of the battery immediately after hooking up the battery to the inverter. It looks like the appearent new battery a swollen from it sides. but not from the front (where the company logo is) and its back. Should I be worried?

The inverter is Homage Axiom 1202 1200KVA/800Watts max bought for 10.5K (quite happy with it).

This is only info written on the battery and the box nothing else....

I am sure you can see the curve/swollen part of the battery on its side

another more clear pic of the curve...

So whats the verdict?

Final verdict.

آپ کو کسی نے چونا لگا دیا.

For the price you paid for this battery, you could get known brand.

Sent from my HUAWEI G700-U10 using Tapatalk

@faisal..

Probably what TA said...:(

your only options are to check battery terminal voltage when it says fully charged from ups and check how much current is flowing through its wires when its fully charged.. the discharge battery to end and then check volts.. then charge it from total discharge and see how much current it is drawing then.

for this much, you need a proper DC clamp meter like a uni-T 200 series..

PS; Sacred sun 100AH battery is brand new for 20k, and 200Ah G series with higher discharge capacity for almost 40+k.. narada USED battery 100AH is 12-16k.. 150AH USED is around 19-23k..

[quote=", post:, topic:"]you have been Punk`d..!!![/quote]

Farhan do you know anyone in karachi who sells sacred sun batteries + apc ups?

Well, I haven't really been punked so to speak cause ultimately I have MONEY BACK guarantee from the shopkeeper with in 6 month of purchase and like I said earlier I have bought this battery yesterday so my investment is pretty much safe. I am actually worried about the hassle of returning and buying or waiting for a new brand of battery to arrive cause shopkeeper doesn't have those brands that you have mentioned + the testing method that you have mentioned cause I am gonna have to buy the tool first and then test it and that too if Electric Co. allows it as now I am starting have 1hr of power outages after every one or two hrs .... So I am not sure how am I going to be able to test it the way it should be tested.

Actually my initial plan was to buy SUNBRIGHT 150AH battery (23K)... I don't know if you'd approve of this brand but a friend of mine is using it for the past 3 months with same inverter as mine and he is extremely happy with it. he previously had two 240AH acid batteries older homage inverter which couldn't even handle the load of 300watts for an hour properly... in fact, his new setup and its results made me go for the same setup.

The problem is the shop is out of stock of 150AH SUNBRIGHT batteries .... he only had one SB100AH and a SB 200AH battery. I initially bought SUNBRIGHT 100AH battery for 17k and used it for a week and until the KSB 165H battery arrived ... it worked fine and now I am thinking it was actually better cause the SB 100ah was dropping 1 bar on the indicator on inverter after 30 minutes on ~250 watt load but this new KSB 165AH batter dropping the bar just after 15 mins on same ~250 watt load which should at least be after 45 mins (correct me if I am wrong here).

Now I just want to know if I simply return this battery and buy another of same KSB brand OR should I go for SUNBRIGHT 200AH (35K) battery (which the shopkeeper still might have) the only problem I see that charge time will also increase along with the back up as the homage inverter has only option for charging rate i.e 15amps & 20amps....

So what do you suggest?

Farhan I'm really impressed that how you elaborated every thing about batteries in this single thread and (a suggestion) if is it possible to post batteries prices too which are locally available in market I mean approx prices if possible

Good work Farhan.

There is also some interesting information here about the batteries. http://upsguidepakistan.com/#selecting-batteries

100AH sacred sun is going for about 16k, I checked with my guy 2 days ago.

@ faisal..

No homo.. but since i like you and all dat romantic shieet...i would STRONGLY suggest you ram the battery in the shopkeepers forehead and return the battery , get your money back, and with it hire a lawyer which will help your battle the 302 case of assault and battery (PUN PUN PUN) on the shopkeeper.

return your battery ASAP.

have never heard of either of the brands you mentioned.. these are usually low cost/low quality unbranded batteries made in korea and china and sold with any sticker and branding for people who buy them.. kinda like OEM..

the problem is dry batteries have long life no matter what, so nothing will happen to them in a year time, thats when the warranty claims are over etc.and you cant put any blame on shopkeepers.. so you are stuck.. this happens so much you cant even imagine. and all the fault blame will go to your ups ..

even a used narada battery will cost around 14-16k for 100AH..which is already 2-3 years used out of its 4-6 years life..

[quote=“Ali05314, post:10, topic:21020”]

Farhan I'm really impressed that how you elaborated every thing about batteries in this single thread and (a suggestion) if is it possible to post batteries prices too which are locally available in market I mean approx prices if possible

[/quote]

Battery prices keep changing rapidly.. i think the AGS 165AH is around 14k..but it will soon rise at aprox 200rs jumps each time even sometimes per day... so keeping track of battery prices is not practical.

for our stock, the 200AH sacred sun is 41k.. its a high energy burst sustained release series so it is slightly more expensive than the routine models that are being sold here.

[quote="ModernWarfare, post:11, topic:21020"]

Good work Farhan.

100AH sacred sun is going for about 16k, I checked with my guy 2 days ago.

[/quote]

most of that is old stock.. since there is now a 60% duty on import of solar items imposed by govt from this year 2014.. so all prices are now high..we are official distributors and direct importers from sacred sun company in PK.. very few people are direct importers but are not official distributors.... the low prices are either of much old stock or some other reason..you may even be able to find them as low as 12k.. figure that out why and how.. and read faisal`s posts for clues..

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:12, topic:21020”]

@ faisal..

No homo.. but since i like you and all dat romantic shieet...i would STRONGLY suggest you ram the battery in the shopkeepers forehead and return the battery , get your money back, and with it hire a lawyer which will help your battle the 302 case of assault and battery (PUN PUN PUN) on the shopkeeper.

return your battery ASAP.

have never heard of either of the brands you mentioned.. these are usually low cost/low quality unbranded batteries made in korea and china and sold with any sticker and branding for people who buy them.. kinda like OEM..

the problem is dry batteries have long life no matter what, so nothing will happen to them in a year time, thats when the warranty claims are over etc.and you cant put any blame on shopkeepers.. so you are stuck.. this happens so much you cant even imagine. and all the fault blame will go to your ups ..

even a used narada battery will cost around 14-16k for 100AH..which is already 2-3 years used out of its 4-6 years life..

[/quote]

So the battery has been returned and I have got my money back you bobo hater ... the shopkeeper was very helpful as I expected too bad he had no sunbright (BTW SunBright FYI both are chines and have similar range/performence) or sacred sun batteries ... thanks for the advice and I too, love for you that ...and otherwise :unsure: .... :D

Now where & how the eff am I going to buy sacred sun or sunbright betteries ...? I contacted a dealer (thanks to Ijaz ahmed's contact) but it looks like its gonna be 3 or 4 more days at minimum before I can get my hands on either of those batteries.... and the outages are getting more severe and looks like the almighty above is also hell bent on microwaving us ....

Well, so GEL or AGM? :(

we have just recieved 200AH sacred sun shipment just this week.. and been shipping all over punjab via daewoo cargo...so there are some places ""where & how the eff u can be going to buy sacred sun"""". and there is not only going to be extreme shortage of electrcity from wapda this year, there is gonna be sever dry battery shortage as well..due to recent 60% duty on import..

those who get early will get it. the rest will enjoy...

150Ah and 100AH will be coming in mid to end of may..

200Ah is just great.. :)

AGM preferably.. gel is 2x more expensive than AGM for the same AH.. also gel are very very very sensitive batteries in charging and discharging.. agm are bit more resilient... and cheaper.. and some models of AGM which we are just now importing are specifically durable design for Airconditioners, deep freezers and heavy duty solar usage and have comparable life to gel...


PS: :wub: :wub:

Ahhhhhhhhhan.... :huh:

Kharcha? 200ah + exact model number, 150ah Expected price + model number, 100ah expected price + model number (AGM ofcourse) + shipping cost + estimated time of arrival in rawalpindi + any concenssion since ..... you like me :P

Does the battery boxes are company sealed & have untempered manufacturing and expiry date & the surety of battery has not previously been used or reconditioned? (I sorry but apney hath se seal kholney ka maza hi kuch orr hota hai IYKWIM...;) )

What if my requirement is 100ah to 150Ah not 200ah specially considering my homage inverter which primarily made to work normal acid batteries & what if I want 150ah with in 2 days...?

you can PM me if you don't wanna go public with the details.

YOU should Pm me cz You require information..

i always request members to PM me for such queries.. forums are public discussions.. not Zubaida aapa ka tv show nor a market place. :P