Piracy discussion thread

@ sah

I totally agree with your post. Can't add more words to what you have already said. Great post.

@ ammarmalik2008

I doubt that even your university is not using legitimate software licenses :( Let alone any students. Just imagine what kind of impression that university and other institutes are giving to students/employees that piracy is OK.

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Let’s consider this analogy: “I live in a country where people don’t have enough to eat, how do you think most of us will afford 12lakh Toyota corolla. So I would rather steal it…” … Give it a thought.

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Toyota corolla can’t be photo copied or copy/pasted otherwise we would have pirated those as well ;)

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^ Your complaints are based on sheer ignorance. I use Linux as the primary OS on one of my computers:

. External electronics such as camera’s might give you trouble.

- OpenOffice usually comes prepackaged in the more popular Linux distros. It has most of the features you find in MS Office, and is compatible with those formats. You can also get Office 2007 formats to work with OpenOffice if you’re willing to put in 10-15 minutes of work (http://www.blogmanno.com/?q=node/64).

- A lot of games out there can be run on Linux with WINE.

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why are you so hellbent in proving your point when there is no point? i have a camcorder, and a digital camera, and my cellphone which i connect to my PC. they wont work with linux, as simple as that. i wont buy new linux ready cameras or phones, do you get that? i am also looking to get a Leadtek TV tuner, which is only compatible with XP and Vista, do you get that??

MY univ course TEACHES us how to use Office 2007, NOT open office. I wont learn how to use Office 2007 by using open office. Get that?

And please dont tell me each and everything in your PC is freeware and every movie you ever watch is on original DVDs, you’re not a saint.

Most games might be compatible with linux, NOT ALL!

Why dont you simply understand my needs are different from yours? You like linux and everything works for you then fine use it!

@wampyr

my univ has brand new Dell/HP PCs with legitimate windows.

First of all, two words from my side: EXCELLENT POST. I thought, only I am good at putting words on to the screen but, it felt so good that youngsters do think this way and can express themselves too, so smoothly.

You see! its quite simple, no need to take or give reasons for this.

Its all connected to one and only one factor, whether it is piracy, stealing, money earned through shortcuts, or even killing someone, for any reason, legitimate, illegitimate, right wrong, good bad, what so ever, what ever is wrong, is wrong. But, wait a sec, do not forget what our human nature is, we as human are by nature bound to commit wrong or sin. It is innate in humans. Then the question is, what makes us walk on a right path in life! So, it is basically, LAW, yes law is what makes all of us disciplined, and it is the deterrence of the laws that fears us not to steal anything, otherwise, if we steal, according to the Islamic law, our hand will get cut, and we will be put in hell on the day of judgement. Try to understand this way, if we see an expensive car on the road and we want it but cannot afford it then what we can do, we can snatch it or steal it but we don't, why! because police is going to catch us. Similarly, if there are laws to be made and then most importantly, laws to be implemented after coming into existence, then not just piracy but but our country will get rid of a lot of issues.

If laws are to be implemented, if I come to know that if I use pirated version of my OS, I'm going to be in trouble, then automatically, I will start paying for my copy or go for its alternative.

As far as personal guilt is concerned, if something is done on a large scale with convenience by 99 per cent of the people without any restrictions of any sort, then guilt is consoled with this thought that "if everybody is doing it, then it is ok".

Both sides; for and against piracy, are in denial. :/

^ Indeed. However, I think the purpose of this thread is neither to convince people to stop piracy nor to discuss whether to use Windows or Linux. The purpose of thread is to inform users about piracy.

Let everyone choose whatever path anyone want to walk.

I can give millions of reason to kill any other human being but none of the reason can justify my killing.

ask some movie,game or series producer what havocs are caused to him by piracy

he only gets 10% or less of the money he was supposed to get without piracy.....

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ask some movie,game or series producer what havocs are caused to him by piracy

he only gets 10% or less of the money he was supposed to get without piracy…

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yes yes we all know how poor george lucas and steven speilberg are. poor them, i heard they live on foot paths now. tom cruise sells his blood for money last i heard, just cant imagine how poor those people are.

If producers got 10% of what they should have, we would not have movies like Star Wars, Lord of the Rings etc. God knows how much loss they would go into if they only get 10% of what they were suppose to. If your figure was true, they would have done something about piracy by now. They didnt because it makes little or no difference to them

^ I can understand if you say that the Pakistani populace on average has low purchasing power and really has no option but to pirate. But your attitude that the rich don't deserve any more money is unfair to them. If you just take into account the number of people in India and Pakistan alone who watch Hollywood movies for 'free', that racks up to a huge amount of royalties stolen from the original makers. The figure might not be 90%, but it would still be significant. The issue is not that Steven Spielberg and George Lucas don't need yet another million dollars, its that they earned it fairly, and others took it away from them unfairly. Its immoral.

As for your earlier comments on software piracy. I think you failed to understand what I was trying to say. I was not trying to be a Linux fan boy, but was merely reinforcing the point that people scrape up the lowest excuses to defend their pirating actions, while turning a blind eye to already available workable alternatives. Why can't people looks at themselves and say that 'yes, I support piracy because well, I like it more than paying for the product, and I don't feel guilty stealing', because really, at the end of the day, thats what they're doing. I could take your post and pick it apart to bits if I wanted to. For example, you can afford to buy/own a cell phone + camcorder + digital camera, but you can't afford to buy the OS to run it? That's seems rather unlikely, but lets leave that matter, I don't want to get into an anal argument. Its just the disillusioned dishonesty of it all that bugs me.

And yes, I'm guilty of pirating, and I never denied it. But at least I know WHY I pirate!

You keep on saying i'm turning a blind eye to freeware but this is now the third time i must tell you that i have already listed a boat load of things that wont work for me on linux. And yes i support piracy, i support it because i need to get my univ work get done. I support it because i need a 3.5+ GPA. So screw the moral grounds, screw the illegality of it all, when it comes to my studies, i will pirate my arse off if there is no alternate(cheaper legitimate windows). And saying my camcorder etc wont work on linux is hardly a low excuse, i mean come on! I spend 60k combined on them!

And your camcorder/cellphone argument is also with fault. Not only will i use the camera for 10+ years, i can still sell it for 5-6k after 10 years. If i pay 200$ for XP, the maximum shelf life for it would be 5-6 years after which i would have to pay another 300-400$ for another windows.

As for the movie piracy. You say we take away their fair share of earning by piracy? Well lets suppose if they sell original DVDs here for 2500rs, how many people would buy them? ZERO! So even if they sell original DVDs here, they wont earn a single $ from it and the result would be the same as it was with pirated DVDs. Yes its wrong, but it doesn't effect them.

@ ammarmalik2008

What sah is trying to say that "did you also stole camcorder, cellphone, digital camera?" If not then why you stole Windows?

By the way, after 10+ years, I don't think you'll be able to sell your camcorder, cellphone, digital camera more than 5% of depreciated price.

I would like to repeat my self one more time here, and this time, I would keep it short and simple plus understandable.

Crime is a crime. piracy is equal to stealing. Rather, its another term for stealing or snatching, or picking up things from a a superstore without paying, or going away with someone's cell phone from his/her place. There can be thousands of similar situations like that which can symbolize stealing or fall into this category. "piracy" as a term is used when it is done in the digital world of application, music or movies by making its illegal distribution. Its hacking when you get your hands on someone's email account, credit card information or any other private and confidential data. Its cracking when you produce Microsoft WindowsXP Pro VLK license and come up as a genuine Microsoft user without even paying a single bug to them. And, this is Piracy [stealing]. And stealing is a crime as much as violating any other law is a crime.

The argument given above is that Microsoft charges too much and that is why we have to steal its serial as a last option. And, the answer is, if Microsoft is not kind enough to sell its product easily then don't use it. After all, it belongs to Microsoft, its their product who are selling it. now its up to them whether they give you as a gift or ask you to pay, either 1 rupee or more. "I love your product. But you have made it so expensive. I cannot buy it from you. [The next morning] I stole your locking code. Because I wanted it and you did not give me for free." Is this ok with all of us? Neither morally, nor legally, anyone here can justify this act.

I think, it is a known fact that all of us here are using pirated copy of xp but at least, don't do wrong by calling it right and justified act. I am on a pirated OS with pirated download manager with pirated burning application and with a pirated compressing client and most importantly, with a pirated Screen Reader called "JAWS for Windows" and I am ashamed upon it. I admit, I should not be doing this, and its a crime, illegal act, wrong.

^ i m a bit confused you know your doing it and you admit it you are even ashamed of doing it

Then why dont u leave it. You can always switch to free and legal software

I am sure there are a dozen free alternatives to the software you are using now

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I am on a pirated OS with pirated download manager with pirated burning application and with a pirated compressing client and most importantly, with a pirated Screen Reader called “JAWS for Windows” and I am ashamed upon it. I admit, I should not be doing this, and its a crime, illegal act, wrong.
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- (Legal) I am using licensed copy of Windows.

- (Freeware) I use Firefox 3 to download (if needed to pause/resume download).

- (Freeware) I use ImgBurn to write CD\DVD discs.

- (Freeware) I use 7-zip for compressing files or Windows built-in zip utility. Believe me, I use both of them several times a day as I have to send files with emails.

- I don’t even use screen-saver. My computer automatically hibernate after 5 minutes of inactivity. Good for bill and good for global environment.

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^ i m a bit confused you know your doing it and you admit it you are even ashamed of doing it

Then why dont u leave it. You can always switch to free and legal software

I am sure there are a dozen free alternatives to the software you are using now

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Yeah, thats the question I was so wanting somebody here to ask.

Yes, I know, piracy[stealing is a crime, and I am committing this crime, that is, violating a law. Because, I am a human. It is human nature to brake laws. And I will keep braking laws until these laws are not being implemented upon us. I would be very happy if Microsoft people come up to me and put some fine upon me. There are copyright laws out here in Pakistan but, since they are not enforced strictly, I will keep heading towards law-braking. I will also brake traffic laws. Because there is no body who can punish me for this.

Remember, though we know what is right and what is wrong for us, still its human nature that attracts us towards doing wrong. And, which is why laws are being made. But, these laws become useless when not implemented.

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If you’re using or at least, trying to make use of freeware and licensed applications then of course, this is something, very very impressive.
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I am having impression that you have never used ImgBurn, 7-Zip, or Firefox/Opera. Other than freeware, another reason is that they are very easy to use.

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But, again, I will not do that.
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Neither we are your guardian angels nor I am interested to stop you from piracy. Sorry, all Wiredians are equal in my eyes. Do whatever you feel right for yourself. We are discussing piracy here, not that whether you are going to leave piracy or not.

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By the way, any alternative for payed screen readers! Screen Readers not screen savers, I am talking about.

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Sorry, I mistakenly read screen saver, instead of screen reader. I don’t use screen reader.

God knows, what I wrote above which gave you an impression that I have never used any freeware available application on my computer and that I cannot understand how user friendly, easy and feature-packed they really are. I am a frequent user of firefox 2 though. Yes, in the absence of the implementation of the laws in any country, I think, its best to leave it on the people and let them decide for themselves. But, as far as my understanding of this post is, this post was made to know the opinion of the people as whether they are for, or against piracy. And, the conclusion suggests that there can be no justification which goes in the favour of piracy that is, stealing. And, with this, I would like my post to be the final one. But, at the same time, hopefully, I was able to make this point loud and clear that until laws are not being enforced stricktly, no change, no good change can be seen here in our country.

I know one thing, if a country like Pakistan bans piracy then they will loose a great amount of talent. I'll give my example to illustrate:

I'm a 20 years old guy who has always been attracted to computers. Since childhood I have experimented every thing on my PC. First I got my self to be a command on Windows 98. Then I switched to XP. I learned a bit of Photo editing, graphics designing, programming, Composing all because I had access to pirated high end software. The Bond between me and the computers got stronger and when I had to choose a profession I had to go for something to do with computers. So I'm now being a Telecommunication Engineer.

Now had there been no Pirated material available, I could've never Got hold of A windows CD to learn installing after buying a PC. I could've never have Adobe Photoshop, Corel Draw, Maya or Poser. I would never been allowed to experiment and I'm sure I would not being a TeleCom Engineer. So though Piracy is immoral, Unfortunately, it is Essential for a country like ours if it wants to excel in the field of IT.

^ That's a good point, but if genuine products weren't as ridiculously expensive as they are, that would not be a problem!