Piracy discussion thread

Please discuss your thoughts and views on piracy here.

I totally and completely support it. I will and will always pirate. We live in a country where its difficult to find food for half the population, where the hell do you think most of us will afford 400$ for vista or 200 for XP? 60$/year for anti virus softwares?

What about movies? Why should i pay 20$ for a DVD? I'm not stupid, thats 1600 for 1 DVD! 20$ might not be a lot for someone in USA but 1600 is a lot for us here. Even if someone had the 'lack of brain' to pay 1600rs, where would he even pay? Shops here dont sell original DVDs.

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I totally and completely support it. I will and will always pirate. We live in a country where its difficult to find food for half the population, where the hell do you think most of us will afford 400$ for vista or 200 for XP? 60$/year for anti virus softwares?
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Let’s consider this analogy: “I live in a country where people don’t have enough to eat, how do you think most of us will afford 12lakh Toyota corolla. So I would rather steal it…” … Give it a thought.

While I personally do not refute piracy completely, I do believe we should take steps to either buy legal software or use the free alternative where available. You always have the Linux alternative (I use Ubuntu) and free software.

We can develop arguments to support piracy if we wish and legitimize our perspective. Such as, when someone questions one over downloading illegal movies, they try to back their stance with the points that run along the following:

"Many Hollywood movies are not released in DVDs in Pakistan, and even if they are, they neglect the market to which I belong; i.e. they do not distribute/sell the DVDs here locally. I wish they did. But were the movies not available in pirated format, I would refuse to buy them altogether and look for either local movies or switch to other form of entertainment. That sure means I will give up piracy and switch to legal buying once they start accommodating our market."

P.S. I am guilty of piracy; I still do watch pirated movies and listen to pirated music.

i agree with you ammar 99% of our population cant pay for originals.

To add more, IT masters/Experts from pirated countries like PAKISTAN go to west and develop/design softwares etc..

we have grown up on it so its sometimes hard to convince yourself that this is illegal or haraam

If piracy weren't that common, Windows wouldn't have been the most common OS found on PCs today.

I am quite sure that Microsoft and other major software vendors implicitly support piracy.

good one...

first of all i personally would like to disagree the statement 'the most of the pakistanis can't pay for originals'. you cant count full population in it. but count the probability of the population who use the stuff (pirated/non-pirated) you will see that most of the users have been using pirated stuff even if they could afford the originals. I regret. but this is just my opinion.

what I think about piracy is that. every thing here, starts, and just gets turned in to a trend. I say, this is grown by the people who just speak not by the people who use.

if some one of us stands up and says he is going to buy DVD worth Rs.2000. I can say 90% of us would call him a mad man just thinking about that if he can download that DVD then why he is going to buy it. and this is the thing most of the people must have thought once and intend to use pirated stuff just to show that he is also capable of piracy.

and I agree Asad in a way thinking of "if a vendor doesn't want it to be pirated he can stop it. he has the right to stop it" but NO. this is the way their name gets promoted totally free of cost. and we, the public, the users promote it.

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Let’s consider this analogy: “I live in a country where people don’t have enough to eat, how do you think most of us will afford 12lakh Toyota corolla. So I would rather steal it…” … Give it a thought.

While I personally do not refute piracy completely, I do believe we should take steps to either buy legal software or use the free alternative where available. You always have the Linux alternative (I use Ubuntu) and free software.

We can develop arguments to support piracy if we wish and legitimize our perspective. Such as, when someone questions one over downloading illegal movies, they try to back their stance with the points that run along the following:

"Many Hollywood movies are not released in DVDs in Pakistan, and even if they are, they neglect the market to which I belong; i.e. they do not distribute/sell the DVDs here locally. I wish they did. But were the movies not available in pirated format, I would refuse to buy them altogether and look for either local movies or switch to other form of entertainment. That sure means I will give up piracy and switch to legal buying once they start accommodating our market."

P.S. I am guilty of piracy; I still do watch pirated movies and listen to pirated music.

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Local movies? I hope you’re kidding, i really do. If you find entertainment in them then good for you, i however dont like punjabi/cheap urdu movies that are released here locally. And which Pakistani movie did you even find on a DVD except Khuda k liye? The other movies dont make it to DVDs and if they do, they do illegally.

And what other form of entertainment? Cricket? A slazenger bat worth 200rs? Adidas ball for 40rs? Isnt that an illegal use of brand name? Same goes for the peripherals for every sport here. Piracy is everywhere and its unavoidable.

Even having licensed software can be problematic when the company provides no services in the country: Windows XP activation woes and Piracy in Pakistan. This happened to me.

That is where the argument "if they are not providing services/products in my country, piracy is ok" comes in. And it does have a slight level of truth to it. If a company is not showing interest in the market in your country, it shouldn't matter whether you get pirated or licensed software unless it is out of a personal sense of guilt.

Let me clear one thing first, I am a supporter for Pro-Piracy Movement but that doesn't mean I do piracy. But I am also a supporter for Free as in Freedom movement (I know both are different things). Until governing laws are not change, we have to live by law of country we are living in.

Piracy is stealing. That's simple to understand.

1) Atheist:

Common ethics tells not to steal what is others' property.

2) Islam:

Stealing is forbidden. Hand should be cut (I don't agree with hand cutting for any stealing).

3) Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism etc.:

All major religions of contemporary world do not allow stealing. Many have sever punishment for them.

3) Law

Laws of almost all major first-world countries do not allow stealing. Common-wealth law also do not allow stealing. As a former British colony, Pakistani Law is also based on large portion of common-wealth law, therefore, Pakistani Law also do not allow stealing others' property.

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As you might see, piracy of software is not legal. I, myself, got affected by it. It's not easy to write a shareware/commercial software but when it goes in wild of piracy world, you get no dime or penny for your hard work.

People giving logic of "oh, it's so expensive, I have to steal it". Take example given by Asad_N, he said it right:

If someone can't afford new Toyota Corolla for 12 lakh and you see a new Corolla on road and says to yourself

"- I can't afford it.

- Majority of Pakistanis can't afford it

- Pakistani are hand-to-mouth, how can they afford 12 lakh car which is available for half price in Japan?

- I need to have a car because everybody has a car and I can't live without a car.

- Hence, I am going to steal it."

Well, I know you are not going to steal it, but many does. Yes, many Pakistani do apply same software piracy rule "it's-ok-to-steal-because-I-can't-afford" to cars, cell-phone, and other stuff.

Thing is, there are alternatives, alternate to car is motorcycle or public transport. I know we all hate Pakistani buses (I have used them 80% of my life and still use them) but that doesn't qualify to steal a car.

There are fair alternatives to pirated softwares, i.e., alternative to Windows. You can use Linux-distro. You can run softwares written for Windows on Linux using WINE.

There is Open-Office (freeware) to mention. List of open-source/freeware is gigantically large. Lots of freeware or open-source softwares available as alternatives. (Thanks to Free as in Freedom movement).

It's all about choice. Steal the car you can't afford or get an alternate, buy motorcycle or use public transport. In fact, in software, you can get new sports car for free (as Linux). What else do you need?

By the way, for people who love Windows, wait for some time, there will be an open-source operating system named ReactOS, that will be a clone of Windows XP. It's still in development stages. But till then please try to use non-pirated software.

I am afraid that even when ReactOS is officially released for daily usage, Pakistanis will still be making excuses to use pirated Windows. I know it because I am a Pakistani too.

You might ask why? Because I have a friend, who like to buy stolen cars from Alakah Ghair. He gets new Corolla for just 2 lakh (instead of 12 lakh). I have tried in vain to convince him that it's morally and legally not right to buy stolen goods because you are supporting robbers. But even after 10 years, even when one of his car got confiscated by FIA and he nearly missed jail, he is still driving another stolen car (6+ cars till now) with a pride :(

I fully support the alternate route except for where I don't find any other options. But, at the same time, I would definitely purchase any software written by a Pakistani programmer (of course if I require it).

It's all about cost and convenience I think. Well, first of all, I think the majority doesn't understand that piracy is stealing or even that the CDs or DVDs they buy are pirated (stolen). For people who do know its pirated, they don't equate it to "stealing" as in stealing a car or TV and that's unfortunate.

There is a free alternative to almost every piece of software out there, true, but are they as convenient and accessible as the rest? You would have a hard time convincing people to switch to Linux because their Windows is pirated - a typical response would be "So what!?" Sure you can use Linux and run Windows apps with Wine, but is the typical computer user going to do that?

I like Asad's post on his blog about the issue with Windows activation. It highlights a very real issue that is we don't have the option to go the legitimate way. I think its important to realize what you're doing is stealing - when you have that feeling of guilt, you're more likely to take any legitimate route that presents itself. People can argue for and against piracy, but the then the fact remains that it is wrong. It might be done for "valid" reasons but does a "valid" reason make stealing alright?

Microsoft, being a prime example here, would go flat out and say piracy is wrong and people who pirate deserve to be punished. But do they then provide an adequate legal alternative for the people who don't wish to pirate?

It's an interesting debate - definitely not black and white.

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It’s all about cost and convenience I think. Well, first of all, I think the majority doesn’t understand that piracy is stealing or even that the CDs or DVDs they buy are pirated (stolen). For people who do know its pirated, they don’t equate it to “stealing” as in stealing a car or TV and that’s unfortunate.
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I agree that many people think that when they pay for CD\DVD disc they are actually “buying” the software.

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I like Asad’s post on his blog about the issue with Windows activation. It highlights a very real issue that is we don’t have the option to go the legitimate way.

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Microsoft, being a prime example here, would go flat out and say piracy is wrong and people who pirate deserve to be punished. But do they then provide an adequate legal alternative for the people who don’t wish to pirate?

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What happen with Asad was sad but genuinely true. However, if you search in Google about Windows Activation then it’s not just the story of Pakistan. People are bashing Microsoft since the release of Windows XP for activation problem, even people from USA has this problem.

Back in 2002, when Microsoft released Windows XP, many reviewers at CNet and ZDNet (people in USA) were bashing Microsoft due to unnecessary and the difficult curve for activation and problem associated with it.

I agree that Microsoft should do more. There should be a responsible Microsoft office in Pakistan to help registration and activation of Windows and other Microsoft products.

Microsoft should also do more than crappy Windows XP Starter Edition or Windows Vista Starter. We also need proper Windows to utilize in daily life. And we can’t pay that huge price.

But then again, Toyota Corolla cost almost half in Japan when compare to Pakistan (due to taxes and import custom duty). People are willing to buy Japan-made imported Toyota Corolla at double price. But people won’t buy Windows at the same price (without taxes and duties) of USA.

I dont have any objections to software being legal or even buying that original softwares...

But wait a minute.

Look at the huge prices of legal softwares..Do u think a common man can afford it at all..??

If Microsoft wants to reduce piracy,then they must reduce the prices of their softwares...This is not the problem with us only(due to the dollar-rupee conversion)..This happens to all abroad too....

@wampyr

if the alternates work for you, then good, but they dont for me. my univ work(turbo C and MS visual studio) both require Windows so Linux is not an option for me.

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@wampyr

if the alternates work for you, then good, but they dont for me. my univ work(turbo C and MS visual studio) both require Windows so Linux is not an option for me.

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Ah! My dear! I might have told you tons of great Linux softwares for development but here I goes:

Turbo C version 2.01

Borland made it freeware on Feb 15, 2000. Get your free and legal version from:

http://dn.codegear.com/article/20841

Turbo C++ version 1.01

Borland made it freeware on Apr 14, 2000. Get your free and legal version from:

http://dn.codegear.com/article/21751

Microsoft Visual Studio 2008 Express

Microsoft allows a totally free edition and of it’s latest version of Visual Studio 2008:

Get it from:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/default.aspx

These softwares are separately available for free from Microsoft:

* Visual Basic (.NET) 2008 Express Edition

* Visual C# 2008 Express Edition

* Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition

* Visual Web Developer 2008 Express Edition

* SQL Server 2008 Express Edition

(I have used Visual C++ 2008 Express Edition and it rocks).

It’s all about your choice. Like most of people, did you even bother to look whether a legal and free version or an alternate is available or not?

What do you think of it (free and legal software) now?

By the way, why anybody else has to tell not to do stealing or not to buy stolen stuff? Why not we do it our self?

wats the equivalent alternative for MS Office?

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wats the equivalent alternative for MS Office?
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IBM Lotus Symphony

Really good. It’s freeware. AFAIK it’s not open-source.

http://www.ibm.com/software/lotus/symphony

OpenOffice.org

Project manage by Sun. It’s good. Open-source and freeware. However, due to heavy reliance on Java, it may be little slow at first load. However, it’s very powerful office suite.

http://www.openoffice.org/

There are many others. Google also have freeware Google Docs but it’s an online application (you need internet to use it).

http://docs.google.com/

well if i install linux, i will have to learn it first, that takes a lot of time, i simply have none at all. its a widely known fact linux is very hard to use. secondly i have no idea which of my hardware is linux ready. its also a widely known fact linux doesnt support many of the new hardwares. software incompatibilities. again, i use what i have and i cant bother to search all over the web for the alternate version of my preferred software.

plus i need MS Office, no alternate no thing, i need Office 2007 for my university homework and projects. I cant ask them to install linux on all their systems.

All those make it simply not viable enough for me to go linux.

and did i mention i play a lot of games? yeah.

^ Your complaints are based on sheer ignorance. I use Linux as the primary OS on one of my computers:

- For day to day tasks, there is no learning curve. Everything is very Windows-like. Its not hard to use, and people should really stop using that excuse if they've never even tried to use Linux before.

- Hardware compatibility has improved a lot over the years. Chances are you'll get your computer working perfectly. External electronics such as camera's might give you trouble.

- OpenOffice usually comes prepackaged in the more popular Linux distros. It has most of the features you find in MS Office, and is compatible with those formats. You can also get Office 2007 formats to work with OpenOffice if you're willing to put in 10-15 minutes of work (http://www.blogmanno.com/?q=node/64).

- A lot of games out there can be run on Linux with WINE.

If you want to keep on using Windows and not switch, then at least don't make lame uneducated excuses. Say you're used to Windows, and are too lazy/scared to switch. Free alternatives are definitely available if people are willing to explore them. The reality is that most people have no qualms using pirated software, and they just don't care.