Net Metering Activism


#1

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I had gone to Tesla Solar in Islamabad to get solar panels. While waiting the conversation turned to Net Metering. The person told me that they had applied to IESCO for net metering. I took a photocopy of their application with the promise to help.

This is an important development in PK and has the potential of giving alternate energy a good filip. Therefore it is important that as many as possible applications are submitted to various DISCOs so that the process moves forward.

So Farhan and Tufail please put in your applications to your respective DISCOs. It costs Rs. 200 but has the potential of redeeming your investments in solar equipment. Also all those who read this and know someone who has solar eqpt. installed, please tell him about this.

If you need to understand net metering better please indicate here. I will try to clarify as much as possible.

Aurangzeb


#2

The actual Notification is linked below

http://www.nepra.org.pk/Legislation/Regulations/NOTIFICATION SRO 892 -2015.PDF

Aurangzeb


#3

Thank you for posting about this. I had read about it in the news but wondered when exactly would it be implemented. I think the distribution companies would be very slow in getting this going...

How much savings can be done with this btw.? Can you provide some estimate? How much will the generated unit be charged at? The same rate as provided by the DISCOs?


#4

[quote=“Joker, post:3, topic:22346”]

Thank you for posting about this. I had read about it in the news but wondered when exactly would it be implemented. I think the distribution companies would be very slow in getting this going…

How much savings can be done with this btw.? Can you provide some estimate? How much will the generated unit be charged at? The same rate as provided by the DISCOs?

[/quote]

I agree that the DISCOs would be slow. However if there are enough applications then they would be under pressure to implement the system. By the way there is no application fee for small systems (less than 20 KW).

It would be in-appropriate to look at this purely from a savings point of view. If you are only looking for savings in your electricity bill then probably you need not go thru the hassle of this scheme. Just putting all your load on solar and weaning yourself from WAPDA during daytime will save you your current electricity bill - whatever it maybe. However you will need a substantial investment in solar hardware to achieve this which could be between 5-10 lakhs for a typical urban home in PK.

This investment of 5-10 lakhs is what this scheme is about. The idea is to sell your surplus power to WAPDA. For example, from about 9 AM to 2 PM a solar system capable of 3 KW will have 2 KW surplus because the consumption of the home during this period, is very low. This surplus 2 KW will be sold to WAPDA. During night when there is no solar and house energy consumption is maximum you will buy energy from WAPDA as usual. At the end of the month your bill will be ELECTRICITY BOUGHT-ELECTRICITY SOLD. So effectively you now have an income from your investment in the solar equipment. For WAPDA the benefit is that without any investment it has added 2 KW of generation capacity. Imagine if this is done in 10,000 households, WAPDA will have 2KWx10000= 20000KW or 20 Megawatts of power. Yes they loose revenue but then they are getting 20 MW without borrowing or investing a single rupee.

Yes the unit of electricity will be the same rate as charged by DISCO. Just go through the rules and you will find these answers.

Aurangzeb


#5

Do you face load shedding in your area? If yes, you won't be able to tie your system to the grid since such equipment requires continuous AC input for synchronization.

I doubt any significant portion of current solar system owners can utilize it. The cheap equipment they have bought will not be compliant with relevant standards and grid-tie safety requirements.

IIRC, you can only get units consumed adjusted against your own consumption from the grid (not 100% sure but maybe possible adjustment against non-peak usage - please confirm). There is no monetary payback for just producing and feeding the grid.


#6

^ it is not necessary to have a Grid tie inverter only for feed back of current.. a true hybrid like Goodwe and Schnieder will automatically do that without requiring ac input

other than that, you are right, majority of the chinese low end manufactured equipment being sold is unable to handle basic operational tasks at anything near 70% efficieny even. and 80% and above people use a CC only, not a true hybrid inverter in their setups..

a proper quality hybrid inverter itself would cost between 2.5lac to 4 lac.. our entire setup costs somewhere in-between these figures and works on a CC only which cost me 35k back then.


#7

The point is that to export power to grid you need to have a bigger setup to generate more than your requirement. If we are having load shedding ( as we always have ) there may not be enough to export. Especially if you are taking into consideration of night time. Then your saved power in batteries will be utilized by yourself.

So net metering still seems nice to know of but less practical to get working.

BTW after reading briefly the nice looking document, you need a 3 phase 400V power source to get net-metering connection. this gives you a big NAYYYYYYYYYYYY to get involved as we only have single phase inverters.

Moreover, there are some other clauses that makes diffcult for a domestic scale Power generation setup to get linked to grid.

mukdeee gal mukao tay apni bijli aap chalao...hahahah

Thanks Aurangzeb for taking initiative and sharing surely a valuable info.


#8

i dont think running a single phase inverter on the 3 phase meter is a problem. this simply will revert excess power on THAT phase on which inverter is connected.. the new 3 phase meters has individual reading for each phase and then totaled up in the final reading.. so if one phase is giving zero reading you still have saved a huge amount... not sure but it may be the even excess units can be subtracted too from other phases i the final total. new meters are smart AF.

besides, even if wapda doesnot pay us back for our excess energy, even if the meter reading reverses and decreases the units consumed at night time, you still are using solar energy for free and using wapda units for free since you paid them back for the units consumed in units returned.. again a huge bill saving

for each unit reversed, you will be saving over 20rs, as for every 8rs unit, there is around 12 rs taxes or so. and rate goes higher every 100-200-700 units..

as for the Aurangzeb initiative (as it should be called from now onwards , :P A.I. ) this is a good step forward, as unless we start with no payment now and just unite reversing, someday we will get to be at wapda paying us back and we getting cheaper and cheaper electricity and excess of it as well.

we all have to start somewhere some day.. today is as good a day as any..!!!!


#9

If merely reversing Wapda unit consumption is the motive, one doesn't even need large battery bank.

I have to wonder about liability issues if inverter goes KABOOM due to hanky panky going on in grid lines like DISCO dumb!@#$s deliberately shorting 220V lines near work site to trip CB rather than calling and getting it tripped. <_<

Now WAPDA paying customers back... never gonna happen. :D


#10

1000% agree to Asad.

it is DISCOs who gets billions of rupees via manipulating figures so you are never gonna get any benefit from them.


#11

Sorry for the late replies.

Your scepticism is well founded. However remember the same doubts about solar power. Its not doable. Its too expensive etc. Suppose you take this proposition to a bank. Don't you think it will be easier to get financing. Tufail and Farhan have around 2-3 kw of solar. Wouldn't you like to add more to get more and more energy independence. I think the commercial people will jump on it because it has a payback mechanism built into it. Almost all manufacturers make grid tied inverters even voltronics. So we shoul see these being imported into pk. With rising electricity costs and falling solar costs the scheme becomes feasible by the day. Once china pak economic corridor power sector investments come online you should see a jump in yr e-bills. Now we are ok because oil is 40 dollars a barrel. What happens when it starts to rise again.

If you have a single phase connection then disco cannot ask for three phase power.

The point, at this stage is not to get an actual net-metering connection, BUT JUST TO PUT IN AN APPLICATION. Your disco cannot force you to have such a connection if you don't want it in the long run. But an emailed application will force them to process the case. AND THERE IS NO APPLICATION FEE. So you just have to send an email application to your disco. That shouldn't take more than 10 minutes.

Aurangzeb


#12

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:8, topic:22346”]

for each unit reversed, you will be saving over 20rs, as for every 8rs unit, there is around 12 rs taxes or so. and rate goes higher every 100-200-700 units…

[/quote]

Farhan,

I am not sure how the tax thing will work out but your general observation above holds good. When the price rises so will the tax.

Aurangzeb


#13

[quote=“Asad, post:9, topic:22346”]

If merely reversing Wapda unit consumption is the motive, one doesn’t even need large battery bank.

I have to wonder about liability issues if inverter goes KABOOM due to hanky panky going on in grid lines like DISCO dumb!@#$s deliberately shorting 220V lines near work site to trip CB rather than calling and getting it tripped. <_<

Now WAPDA paying customers back… never gonna happen. :D

[/quote]

^ This… YES… about the wapda corroded lines and loose jumpers…

Hooo-ever, the advantage of returning solar is as mentioned above, and now below…

Aurangzeb

if you look at your current new format bill, you will see there is a pie chart…mine this month says… Lesco 43%, Taxes 67% on 1 bill , and Lesco 49% and Taxes 51% on the other meter.

this month is a very low bill since they over billed last month and thus under 300 units consumed on both meters… if it were to rise around 500 to 700 units, the bill would be almost 4 times as much in taxes as unit rate goes double. and so would the taxes…

so for a 10rs unit, you almost have 12rs taxes… (rough example, not accurate… see % on your bills)

so in general a unit saved is around 15-20rs saving in total…

Also instead of payback, simple reversing would be a blessing…

for all the units consumed at night for the AC or Room cooler and fans in summer, the meter would reverse almost a lot next day, so your days are solar powered and nights are zero unit from wapda.

Crazy? yes …Since its wapda we are talking about, it sounds too good to be crazy indeed, :(


#14

farhan bhai na khawab dikha hum ko.. kaheen mar hee na jain..... this wapda can never get less money than they want... i think if one of friend can have then this will be a good thing to know of.


#15

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:13, topic:22346”]

Also instead of payback, simple reversing would be a blessing…

Crazy? yes …Since its wapda we are talking about, it sounds too good to be crazy indeed, :(

[/quote]

Farhan,

Alas your idea on meter reversing (if it happens) would be just great. However the issue is as follows

You would have noticed that the Rules talk about two meters - one for imported power and the other for exported. Now the tax caleed GST on services is a government levy. Govt. as you know guards it revenues very jealously. So the imported power will have GST built into it. So if you as a consumer import 100 and export 50 government should get revenue either on 150 or at least on 100 supplied by wapda. In your scheme of reversing meters the information on gst is lost which government would not allow to happen. However this is worse than you becoming a producer and the unit supplied by you to wapda become liable for payment of gst (lol). When the proliferation of net metering producers reaches 2 million then the finance minister decides that a levy of 5% gst be charged on units supplied by such net metering consumers to wapda. That would be fun- just like cng.

Aurangzeb


#16

[quote=“aurangzebhaque, post:15, topic:22346”]

Farhan,

Alas your idea on meter reversing (if it happens) would be just great. However the issue is as follows

You would have noticed that the Rules talk about two meters - one for imported power and the other for exported. Now the tax called GST on services is a government levy. Govt. as you know guards it revenues very jealously. The imported power has GST built into it. So if you as a consumer import 100 and export 50 government should get revenue either on 150 or at least on 100 supplied by wapda. In your scheme of reversing meters the information on gst is lost which government would not allow to happen. However this is better than you becoming a producer and the unit supplied by you to wapda become liable for payment of gst (lol). When the proliferation of net metering producers reaches 2 million the then finance minister decides that a levy of 5% gst be charged on units supplied by such net metering consumers to wapda. That would be fun- just like cng.

Aurangzeb

[/quote]


#17

Actually what i mentioned above is happening in different parts of europe especially germany..electricty is being sold to their electric company and people are getting paid .. that happens when units consumed are returned and then more are produced and fed back to grid. thus for each unit there is a payment for the producer..

this reduces the thermal stress and pollution of organic electricty production, which itself is subject to environmental taxes there in developed countries.. their EC gets muft ki energy without spending any resources which is bought at full price by those with no solar... since 2014 to date. german national electric companies have sold 70% less electricty from thermal methods than previous years as whole country is generating 70% excess solar energy of their daily requirements.

infact according to their recent 3rd party stats, germany most urban areas have advanced solar power stored to run whole country for few weeks in case of total shutdown..

Funny but true story... their coal and oil power generation companies are under threat of shut down due to clean free energy being produced and stored :P


#18

Considering the taxation issues, it would be better to use the solar energy for your own priority use rather than utility to reduce units consumed from utility rather than feeding your produced energy back into the grid for lesser adjustment only benefit. Some intelligent control circuitry to transfer power source according to load shedding and solar system capacity would be needed but that should be simple enough.


#19

[quote=“Asad, post:18, topic:22346”]

[/quote]

Farhan,

What you have said is absolutely true. However the reason for the negative price of electricity in germany is because due to solar the coal and gas based producers demand goes very low - to the point that the plant has to be shut down. The cost of shutting down and restarting is very high. So the producer, rather than shutting down the plant pays someone to ‘use’ his electricity which is still cheaper than shutting down and restarting his plant. This is causing system stability problems in europe and even Australia. Getting paid to use electricty- that is really fun. And it happenened due to net metering.

Asad,

Your contention is valid until oil is us dollar 40 per barrel. When it hits 60 you will either have to stop using power or connect more panels. It is only then when you need to buy more panels and bigger inverters and so forth will you remember net metering.

Aurangzeb


#20

[quote=“Asad, post:18, topic:22346”]

Considering the taxation issues, it would be better to use the solar energy for your own priority use rather than utility to reduce units consumed from utility rather than feeding your produced energy back into the grid for lesser adjustment only benefit. Some intelligent control circuitry to transfer power source according to load shedding and solar system capacity would be needed but that should be simple enough.

[/quote]

no intelligence needed… only an intelligent Hybrid inverter needed :)

this net metering system is ONLY working when EXCESS energy is being produced… when ALL energy is being used nothing is given back… when at night wapda units are used, they MAY get reversed when peak energy production at 10 am to 3pm in summers,…in case some one has already put an inverter AC on their solar as well, the probably nothing will be reversed,

this is for those big house holds where they ahve panels in capacity over 3KW power generation…(not panel power, Generation power)