My Solar setup in Kasur city

Salaam friends,

I recently had my first solar power setup. The one installed is not final as there are expansion on the way. As this was my first solar project and had limited idea of the output from the system

The current setup is with the following points.

255x4 PV panels

45A Morningstar MPPT charge controller

5000 VA inverter with its own PWM option.

AGS 4 x 200 Ah batteries

The setup is so far performing fine as per the conditions. I have a plan to add more 500 - 800 watts panel so that I can totally move my home onto it. As of now it is hybrid with couple of major loads on WAPDA.

The whole setup was installed by me and my father. We got these fabrication from the local shop.

The generator and WAPDA is part of the setup to make it more flexible and user friendly. It was nice to see initially the system to be on +950watts out of 1020 watt capacity. These days as the batteries remains almost charged so the output goes up to 750watt depending on conditions.

http://s1313.photobucket.com/user/tufail_74/library/My Solar Power Setup

Tufail,

Bravo and my compliments to you and your father. Great work.

Can you share the final cost of the whole setup.

How much are you electricity are you producing.

Also for the benefit of all of us, could you please post the readings of the watt-hour meter, with date, so we can all see the energy being harvested.

Bravo again.

Aurangzeb

I did not mention the 200ahx4 AGS batteries.

So far the cost is around 4lakh and with possible additions, it may go to 5lakh but this means u can run full house on it incl waters pumps and other heavy load.

for the readings, it may be a bit difficult as I am in saudi arabia now. but the info i get is that we are getting around 5500-6000watth per day these days. i am expecting this to cross 8000wh in coming months as the day length will increase.

we in fact has new electricity meter and yet the first bill has not come but once i get it then the real figures can be shared as the current energy meter installed at the output of inverter gives hybrid value not just the solar value.

As of now, the MPPT CC is doing job for all 4 panels but I am thinking that to give 2 panels to CC and other 2 to inverter although it is PWM inverter yet it will give me option of switching to utility once the sun goes down as I prefer to keep batteries charged than to cycle them during the night time. his will increase battery life.

AOA

DSC_0042_zps55d4ba75.jpg

assuming from this pic, that this is the hybrid 5000VA hybrid inverter yuo are talking about, which apparently you bought from nizam solar i guess..

there is confusion in your setup.. what is the purpose of the hybrid inverter if you were gonna use a seperate CC.. and vice versa, why go for a seperate CC when there is already a CC built in the inverter....further more the cost seems a bit too high for your equipment..

btw, which company inverter is it? could you share its mmodel? since we are importing a similiar looking model which is under manufacturing process from our partner company, it would be helpful if you could share its specs or company product link please.

thanks..

Yes it is a hybrid and from voltronicpower. it is bought from Nizam solar. it is Axpert 1-5kVA. This company manufacturer units and sells in large bulks with the buyer's name. I myself have seen this inverter from many other installers with their names. So far it is good inverter with good options.

You are right. I have separate CC as I bought is before even coming to Pakistan. The idea was to keep CC separate because of possible heating if we use with higher load. although it seems to me now that having CC inside inverter may be better due to the fact that the batteries will have lesser charge/discharge cycle.

I bought this inverter basically for the reason that I wanted 48Vdc setup to get maximum from the CC as with 24Vdc it would go upto 24x40=960watt while with 48x40=1920 watt. The system is over sized for my current requirement but my expansion in my home will be accommodated in it. my current load is far less than inverter capacity.

Yes i know cost is a bit higher that has other reason as I came to Pakistan with very limited vacation and had to start this project on day one so basically did not do much physical market research. I only contacted various people via phone or email to get maximum info. other reason was to have a bit safe to operate system as i did not want to leave it in a way that i get any issue when i am not there. I agree the same requirement can be fulfilled with lesser budget. but so far I personally feel that it was not a wrong decision.

I want to ask you one thing about the state of the battery. I mean to which extent, it is OK to utilize the battery. like my system is 48Vdc and I have AGS 245 model which is I think 200Ah battery. Now I recharge during the night with utility when they go below 47Vdc. What do you suggest is this correct or can I go more below without any issue with the batteries.

BTW, Now I have plan to divide panels to CC and inverter to get the function of the inverter to go straight to utility when there is no PV power. this will stop regular charging cycle which are happening now after the sunset.

Regards,

Aaah... ok..

yep, it looked fimiliar like Axpert..we imported many of those back then..Axpert, and better infini solar... now shifted to Goodwe due to higher quality...we have recently recieved our shipment of the Goodwe Hybrids which company made on order for us due o specific requirement in PK..they are 3KVa and 5Kva models..5Kva shipment is on port clearing for duty.

1 - CC inside the inverter makes more sense as the device is intelligent enough to mould itself according to power requirements.. so it would charge and discharge based on a cental set of CPU control.. external device may keep on charging or may not charge it when required according to power requirement.

2 - Problem with Axpert and especially infini solar was that there CC were not upto the Max VA of the inverter..thats why we switched to goodwee for a once in life solution..

3 - no system is ever over sized , even if you double it now, you would still be short of power :) .. universal rule.

4 - 47V is absolutely no problem..batteries can go upto 44V but that is bad.. 46V is the bare minimum they should go for our local batteries since they are not deep cycle. all these settings can be set in the interface of the inverter..it is safer to set it to 46.5 or even 47 cz sometimes due to loadshedding batteries may go down a notch efore getting back on AC charging from wapda.

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

BTW, Now I have plan to divide panels to CC and inverter to get the function of the inverter to go straight to utility when there is no PV power. this will stop regular charging cycle which are happening now after the sunset.

[/quote]

this would not be a recommended option..panel power will be split..

besides Aurangzebhaq can shed better light on this ..

My idea is one array of 2 panels to CC and other array of 2 to inverter.

Personally speaking I did not know that you yourself deals in this otherwise I would surely have been to you for it. Now I am not sure what will be better

1 connect all panels to inverter but this is PWM

2 Keep CC in circuit as it is MPPT.

I also now have a thinking to sellout the inverter and then get one with MPPT in it to resolve this like forever. but as i am outside so doing this seems a bit difficult.

You are right it may seem over sized not but not for sometime in future.

oversized is just your extra CC..everything is ok.. inverter is overkill though at 5000VA

as i said before in another post..

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

practically speaking, MPPT are best suited for Grid tie inverters which are not suitable for our PK houses.. for offices they are best cheaper options but not for homes..

MPPT advantages come only if you have small battery storage... in case you have large batteries beyond the required load, you are better off with PWM and saving money for bigger batteries.

that is exactly why we used a PWM in this setup.. this is a 60 amps PWM capable of even running a split ac with ease along with house.. instead of a 60A MPPT which would cost 2x as much ..

[/quote]

since you have really large batteries you have no advantage of MPPT anyways.,instead you could add 2 more panels or add 4 more same batteries and you would get a tremendous boost in backup power..

one CC is enough for all panels. adding other will have no benefit especially since you only have 4 panels.

Thanks for the tip. I also have a feeling for 500watts may be at par for my setup and 800watt will mean to relax and enjoy. Adding same battery bank to existing is my basic plan. That I shall do when next time come to Pakistan.

But the advantage of going higher PV volt than Vmp comes only in MPPT CC. That means you can at least add one more panel in the same array. Like my CC Vmax is 150VDC which means It can easily handle upto 140VDC input while the PWM can handle only 52-70VDC with Vmp of 61VDC. This in turn reduces the cable size and hence the loss.

Though this may be feasible for all those who have fairly bigger setup like 3000W or so.

But one salient advantage my CC has the equalization or 4 step charging mode. This surely will add to my battery life. That is also a factor that I am having a view to keep it there.

Thanks again for the valuable tips.

All good CC have 4 step charging... my own PWM is 96V max, but it does 4 step charging and has builtin detection of type of battery sealed gel flood, and standard settings for all...cable lengths remain the same usually..connecting in series or parallel is a matter of terminals only.. has little effect on wore length...in all our setups, our wiring is very neat due to linear connection..wiring is the main thing that takes up most of our time anyways..

Axpert are the low end line range from voltronics.. Only their latest new Axpert of 2014 models come built in with MPPT with proper va to Amp ratio..that too by using 2 CC instead of one large one..even infini solar most models are under powered..

Goodwe hybrid inverters are equiped by default with over capacity CC than their VA meaning always extra power even at 100% utilization.., come with auto switching, auto detect battery, true hybrid power utilization..silent, and a power factor to fall in love with all over again..

2CC dont make one right.. voltage detection by 2 intelligent chargers always creats problem.. even good one like APC donot work well with double chargers.. Desi chargers work fine, but intelligent chargers never work well together.. they will actually damage your battery no matter how good a charging system is..

What is price of 2kW of GoodWe MPPT inverter? That is true two CC can have conflict as these charging profiles are different.

there are only 2 models in pure proper hybrids, 3kva and 5kva....our current import is of Goodwe 5KVA.. company manufactured this hybrid model for our PK requirements to us only, and just recently started shipping this model this month..currently 5kva is the one we are importing for commercial comapny uses and high end homes..

it is a true hybrid.. both on grid and off grid operation , seamless integration and higher than 99.5% power efficiency which is way above international and british standards..

Dual MPPT trackers ,. which do exactly what you wanted with double CC but they do it microprocessor controlled ..

[quote=", post:, topic:"]
es3.jpg

Product link

http://www.goodwe.com.cn/en/shop_show.aspx?shop=56&type=ES+Series+(Hybrid)&intput=77

the 5KVA model is the one we have in stock..

[/quote]

I checked with Akhtar Solar and their equivalent hybrid inverter was Rs 125,000/-. So I assume the price of the Goodwes would be in the same ball-park if not more (my guess is between 175-190K since only 5KW model is being marketed). All these inverters have Grid tie built into them which is irrelevant for PK since Net-Metering is not applicable here. Unless one has an application where no interruption of the power can be tolerated - why have (pay for) grid tie facility in an inverter. Having grid tie, adds substantially to the cost of any inverter. In fact, if not setup properly, there is real danger that your solar grid-tie inverter may accidentally start feeding power into the line thus reversing the WAPDA energy-meter. If discovered, you can be accused of thieving electricity, which is not taken lightly these days :rolleyes:.

So in my opinion the poor man's approach would be to use the following system.

A good quality UPS like APC. Now even desi Sine Wave UPSs/Inverters are available upto 1-2 KW. The un-reliable part of these are the battery charger. Such UPSs should not cost more than Rs. 12K/KW. So even if one has to use two of these by splitting the load on two (even 3) separate desi I KW UPSs/Inverters, it seems doable. So cost of Inverters works out to be Rs. 24K.

Batteries:- Can't be less than 2 but 4 is better for a 24VDC system. This should cost around Rs. 95K for 4 batteries and Rs. 47K for the minimum configuration of 2.

Upto here we are still cheaper than the Goodwe/Akhtar Solar configuration.

Now comes the real decision point. If your issue is to just get rid of the load shedding then use the route Tufail had in his mind i.e. get a charge controller and hook it up to the batteries separately through 300 watts of solar panels. This should give you enough energy through out the day to re-charge your batteries for the period when WAPDA is off.

But if you want to get the benefit of free solar power and reduce your electricity bill then get the biggest charge controller available in the market (40-50 Amps) and put in a KW of solar cells (gradually- starting with say 500 Watts or so and adding in more every 3-6 months or so).

Aurangzeb

^^ nice sharing.

If govt. Will give interest free finance for solar energy on small level , that will be better step rather then begging for electricity from India.

Sent from my HUAWEI G700-U10 using Tapatalk

aurangzebhaque:

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

So in my opinion the poor man's approach would be to use the following system.
[/quote]

Your point is exactly for that.. and this is what a poor man`s solar setup looks like :)

the goodwee hybrid is not meant for the poor man.. it is a high quality professional or commercial use onverter, or home users who need to just put their whole house on it and forget it ..as i said previously

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

company manufactured this hybrid model for our PK requirements to us only, and just recently started shipping this model this month..currently 5kva is the one we are importing for commercial company uses and high end homes..

[/quote]

we custom built this design with goodwe since they only made grid tie before and we installed many grid ties here but there were some problems.. it required electrical maintenance,, so we did the hybrid portion of the works with goodwe and they did the manufacturing.. so since working on it from 2012, our first batch is here in february..

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

All these inverters have Grid tie built into them which is irrelevant for PK since Net-Metering is not applicable here. Unless one has an application where no interruption of the power can be tolerated - why have (pay for) grid tie facility in an inverter. Having grid tie, adds substantially to the cost of any inverter. In fact, if not setup properly, there is real danger that your solar grid-tie inverter may accidentally start feeding power into the line thus reversing the WAPDA energy-meter. If discovered, you can be accused of thieving electricity, which is not taken lightly these days
[/quote]

1 - goodwe inverters are perfectly protected for <1sec for over under reverse flow, reverse polarity, reverse everything..which shuts it down to prevent any damage to anything.

2 - The added benefit for being a grid tie is free power flow to mains to appliance even if there are no batteries .. freedom to work..freedom to install anyway you want.. also when there would be proper metered meters installed in future by wapda, you wont have to change your setup.

3 - none of our current supplied wapda Digital meters can be reversed with reverse flow of electricity...they arent designed to..

4 - ^ therefore you canot be accused of theft :)

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

I checked with Akhtar Solar and their equivalent hybrid inverter was Rs 125,000/-. So I assume the price of the Goodwes would be in the same ball-park if not more (my guess is between 175-190K since only 5KW model is being marketed).
[/quote]

kept it till last to reply :D

of all the people, i didnt expect that from you.. :P.. why buy a BMW or Mercedes for 4 people when a cultus or mehran could do the same ?. LOL

Goodwe hybrid inverters are equipped by default with over capacity CC than their VA meaning always extra power even at 100% utilization.., come with auto switching, auto detect battery, true hybrid power utilization..silent, and a power factor of upto 0.95 , could we want anything more

it is a true hybrid.. both on grid and off grid operation , seamless integration and higher than 99.5% power efficiency which is way above international and british standards..

Dual MPPT trackers ,. which do exactly what you wanted with double CC but they do it microprocessor controlled so proper synergy..

of all the Voltronics models with built in MPPT, their CC are always under powered than their VA.. only till 2014 the new axperts come with double CC just to barely match their VA..

Goodwe are the top tier company by all international standards.. just read their spec sheet in the post above.. they just cant get any better unles agha sahib produces one that produces peretual solar energy CC as well with PF above 1. :D

well lots of thanks for the detailed info.

From the specs, though the inverter may seem costly but it is what a good setup should have. For solar setup, the main thing should always be long term planning and installtion so saving few thousand will cause big dent in the system in the long run.

If I was to buy the, i would surely go for this. I think if you brong out 1kW and 2kW model, there will be great market for them as most of consumers fall in this two ranges.

By the way, from so far feedback, Voltronicpower is not bad it is feasible for a bit low cost consumers as the 1kW is mentioned to me around 25000-30000 pkr. which can be good with relation to modified desi one. if you do not use to the max rating, the CC and the inverter will work fine. also from my experience, i have seen that batteries are very much more important as the night length is fairly longer if we want to monimize the wapda consumtion.

^ the axpert series is the worst from voltronics..really poor... their proper better quality series are Infinisolar, (very nice units) and thus they are costly, and still are underpowered in their CC to power output..

There are only 2 models in this true hybrid Goodwee series, 3KVA and 5KVA..3KVA for homes and 5KVA for large mansions using inverter AC as well..so u only need one unit to run your entire home including AC...it also have a very huge and flexible range of VDC from 150-380VDC which allows for a very flexible expansion option.

5KVA shipment has arrived, aprox price is near 300k.. price hikes all over due to recent 30% tax imposed by govt in march..

expect huge shortage of dry batteries...out of all our next shipment 300 batteries, above 200 are already backlogged.

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:15, topic:20896”]

kept it till last to reply :D

of all the people, i didnt expect that from you.... why buy a BMW or Mercedes for 4 people when a cultus or mehran could do the same ?. LOL

[/quote]

Farhan,

I didn't mean to rain on the Goodwee. It is the Rolls Royce of Inverters, now that I have studied the literature. Yes. your target market is the high end upscale home plus the commercial/industrial user who can afford one. For me (and other poor men like me) we can only drool and sigh at such machines, while driving cultuses or Mehrans.

For the record I drive a Corolla which is vying to become a BMW. :rolleyes:

LOL

Aurangzeb

@aurangzebhaque

I agree goodWe is having better specs than Voltronicpower but it is costly too. That's why, it goes a bit beyond low-end user. As far the CC current is concerned, both of the GoodWe and voltronic are stated to have 50A with 48VDC which means 2400Watt PV panels and surely this is far above home user. Only advantage you get from voltronicpower is that the inverter is bigger and that keep you free from capacity issue in future needs.

Both GoodWe and Voltronicc have 3-stage charging. If GoodWe could have 4th stage which is equlisation then it would be the best so far i know of. But again you should consider long term benefit and decide something that should keep you free of any worry till at least 10 years.

I think the 2kVA of Voltronicpower is around 56000rs and usually this size is very economical for home users.

^ 56k for 2kva inverter and CC... Woof :)

i have an averagely powered system at home.. very averagely powered.. and the CC is not MPPT, its just a 60A PWM.. and that CC is almost 40k...has equalization, boost, float..everything else that is available for it is an accessory like the external temperature and coefficient sensor.. these doesnot come preinstalled at that sale price point.. and yet that average to good CC is almost 40k...the schiender electric 60A CC was 75k at that time with 5 year warranty.. :(

i am using a 2200VA APC, cz cant afford a decent inverter, which prices usually start from 40k for just a 1.5KVA..all the way upto 1.5 lac for 3kva for a GE or German inverter..just an inverter..

do you really believe that the locally branded axperts at 2kva for that price are any good?..majority of them are fake Voltronics, as voltronics themselves are making lower quality inverters on demand for lower price for PK dealors..they are justified in doing so..we asked them such and they simply said that if some one wants a cheap product, they make and sell it to them. thats what they do in manufacturing...

what is wrong is the local market putting axpert and their shop shop sticker on it and selling it like original spec axpert and other models .. you can see the Nizam Solar logo on your model....and many others are doing the same..

also happening is entirely fake models made and put in original like body of Axpert and being sold..like the iphone and galaxy china copy phones with even larger screens and higher specs quoted than original manufacturers.. for 4-5k only..

Voltronics are now aware of this, and they are soon gonna device policy against this illegal practice and only supply to official distributors.. EPSolar and goodwe are already doing so... we are one of the official distributors of EPSolar, Voltronics (Infini-solar models) Shanghai solar, Hi-Roller and Sacred Sun in PK, and SOLE distributor of Goodwe..