Is Einstein's Theory of Relativity in danger?

During the OPERA (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus) experiments at CERN - Geneva Switzerland, scientists were able to make Neutrinos (subatomic particles) travel faster than speed of light.

More details and original article:

http://zone.ni.com/d...496?metc=mtzqm9

I'm afraid but it's few month old story.... And inshaAllah science will keep on discovering Allah's creation forever

@nvd650: A bit old but an interesting read nonetheless. :)

I am telling you man a day will come when famous ''law of conservation of energy'' would also become garbage. Discovery continues. ''Intelligent brains'' born everyday.

Asad I've read it somewhere in Urdu translation :D Really worth reading but science still don't know a lot....

[quote=“nvd650, post:5, topic:16352”]

Asad I’ve read it somewhere in Urdu translation :D Really worth reading but science still don’t know a lot…

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Watch documentary made by BBC ‘‘Faster than speed of light’’. Knowledge that human being owns is nothing.

Einstein's principle states that nothing with MASS can travel faster than light.

Thus if certain sub-atomic particles have no mass than they can travel at the speed of light

[quote=", post:, topic:"]

During the OPERA (Oscillation Project with Emulsion-tRacking Apparatus) experiments at CERN - Geneva Switzerland, scientists were able to make Neutrinos (subatomic particles) travel faster than speed of light.

More details and original article:

http://zone.ni.com/d…496?metc=mtzqm9

[/quote]

Nop… he is still a genius.

“The relativistic motion of clocks on board GPS satellites exactly accounts for the superluminal effect, says physicist.”

Faster-than-Light Neutrino Puzzle Claimed Solved by Special Relativity

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It’s now been three weeks since the extraordinary news that neutrinos travelling between France and Italy had been clocked moving faster than light. The experiment, known as OPERA, found that the particles produced at CERN near Geneva arrived at the Gran Sasso Laboratory in Italy some 60 nanoseconds earlier than the speed of light allows.

The result has sent a ripple of excitement through the physics community. Since then, more than 80 papers have appeared on the arXiv attempting to debunk or explain the effect. It’s fair to say, however, that the general feeling is that the OPERA team must have overlooked something.

Today, Ronald van Elburg at the University of Groningen in the Netherlands makes a convincing argument that he has found the error.

First, let’s review the experiment, which is simple in concept: a measurement of distance and time.

The distance is straightforward. The location of neutrino production at CERN is fairly easy to measure using GPS. The position of the Gran Sasso Laboratory is harder to pin down because it sits under a kilometre-high mountain. Nevertheless, the OPERA team says it has nailed the distance of 730 km to within 20 cm or so.

The time of neutrino flight is harder to measure. The OPERA team says it can accurately gauge the instant when the neutrinos are created and the instant they are detected using clocks at each end.

But the tricky part is keeping the clocks at either end exactly synchronised. The team does this using GPS satellites, which each broadcast a highly accurate time signal from orbit some 20,000km overhead. That introduces a number of extra complications which the team has to take into account, such as the time of travel of the GPS signals to the ground.

But van Elburg says there is one effect that the OPERA team seems to have overlooked: the relativistic motion of the GPS clocks.

It’s easy to think that the motion of the satellites is irrelevant. After all, the radio waves carrying the time signal must travel at the speed of light, regardless of the satellites’ speed.

But there is an additional subtlety. Although the speed of light is does not depend on the the frame of reference, the time of flight does. In this case, there are two frames of reference: the experiment on the ground and the clocks in orbit. If these are moving relative to each other, then this needs to be factored in.

So what is the satellites’ motion with respect to the OPERA experiment? These probes orbit from West to East in a plane inclined at 55 degrees to the equator. Significantly, that’s roughly in line with the neutrino flight path. Their relative motion is then easy to calculate.

So from the point of view of a clock on board a GPS satellite, the positions of the neutrino source and detector are changing. “From the perspective of the clock, the detector is moving towards the source and consequently the distance travelled by the particles as observed from the clock is shorter,” says van Elburg.

By this he means shorter than the distance measured in the reference frame on the ground.

The OPERA team overlooks this because it thinks of the clocks as on the ground not in orbit.

How big is this effect? Van Elburg calculates that it should cause the neutrinos to arrive 32 nanoseconds early. But this must be doubled because the same error occurs at each end of the experiment. So the total correction is 64 nanoseconds, almost exactly what the OPERA team observes.

That’s impressive but it’s not to say the problem is done and dusted. Peer review is an essential part of the scientific process and this argument must hold its own under scrutiny from the community at large and the OPERA team in particular.

If it stands up, this episode will be laden with irony. Far from breaking Einstein’s theory of relatively, the faster-than-light measurement will turn out to be another confirmation of it.

Ref: arxiv.org/abs/1110.2685: Times Of Flight Between A Source And A Detector Observed From A GPS Satellite.

Does anybody believe ''parallel universe theory''. I don't. It's just a non sense gibberish like evolutionary theory presented by a scientist who was evolved from monkeys, Darwin. I mean where is mine parallel? Hey, are you listening to me, ''anti-blogger''. Did you listen anti-blogger, our scientists say that you are my equally opposite copy and you belong to the parallel universe. You are my ''alternative reality''. Lets play chess and find out who is more genius between two of us because our f*cking scientists are mad. They make AIDS in laboratory then they make its vaccine. Does the same happen in your universe, anti-blogger? B)

[quote=“Faisal, post:8, topic:16352”]

But there is an additional subtlety. Although the speed of light is does not depend on the the frame of reference, the time of flight does. In this case, there are two frames of reference: the experiment on the ground and the clocks in orbit. If these are moving relative to each other, then this needs to be factored in.

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Logical point :) Let’s see what the physicists of the world conclude about this experiment.

The biggest case against this is SN1987a supernova and the recent SN2011fe in M101. If indeed neutrinos did travel faster than light then we should have detected before the light from the supernova reached us. That was not the case.

In the OPERA experiment, neutrinos arrived 60ns faster than photons. If this was the case, then in the case of SN1987A neutrinos would have arrived four years before the light from the supernova reached us. Now, light did travel slightly slower than the neutrinos but thats because light has to escape from the core of the star which is collapsing. This small lag is completely explained by this.

It is possible that experiments are creating the neutrinos differently than what happens in a supernova, but this at least makes me skeptical. Well this and the fact that Relativity is a very well understood phenomena. A lot of folks seem to think that these theories are just, well, theories. The fact is they have been tested numerous times. Time-dilation, which indeed seems unbelievable, is something that has been tested uncountable times in labs and in our daily lives (think GPS).

Is it possible that Relativity is overturned? Of course. What gets me is crackpots suggesting "oh humans don't understand anything" just because a theory was overturned. That is the entire basis of science. Science is a self-correcting process because it only goes on the observable facts. I understand fully well that our place in the universe is absolutely insignificant. We do not matter, at all. However, even if I die with even just 1% of the knowledge that helps explain why the Universe works like it does than I would die a happy man.

The Kepler spacecraft is sitting in orbit and has so far discovered 2000+ planets outside of our solar system. As someone who has been following Astronomy for almost 18 years and remembers thinking "I doubt we'll ever be able to see those" in the mid 90s this is absolutely staggering and a testament to human ingenuity.

Loose Cable Explains Faulty 'Faster-than-light' Neutrino Result

http://www.livescien...-neutrinos.html

Faster than light neutrinos? More like faulty wiring

http://www.physorg.c...lty-wiring.html

[quote=“mtrtmk, post:12, topic:16352”]

Loose Cable Explains Faulty ‘Faster-than-light’ Neutrino Result

http://www.livescien…-neutrinos.html

Faster than light neutrinos? More like faulty wiring

http://www.physorg.c…lty-wiring.html

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Opposition, as usual.

[quote=“blogger, post:13, topic:16352”]

Opposition, as usual.

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I don’t what do you mean by that but in scientific realm, a hypothesis, theory or a test which can be tested or re-tested, should be tested or re-tested to perfection.

Lolzz its just a cover story guys, "OPERA" that is ;)

Believe it or not, man already had created FTL air and spacecrafts in 1970's, creating advanced technology was never a question in the first place, ENERGY is whats required if you need to build something huge, e.g , pure raw form of HE3 atomic number.

IMO and many people believe that project OPERA was build to let something come through our realm/dimension/reality/universe, hypothesis or not, but its fairly possible.

[quote=“Faisal, post:14, topic:16352”]

I don’t what do you mean by that but in scientific realm, a hypothesis, theory or a test which can be tested or re-tested, should be tested or re-tested to perfection.

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Indeed. But sometimes, retesting leads to banning that new invention or discovery because ‘‘hogs’’ hate it if that new invention or discovery would make their businesses obsolete. Influence of hogs is necessary to move in this direction.

I don't think there's such case in this regard but I will be interested to hear your theory if you think there is such case.

[quote=“koolkhan, post:15, topic:16352”]

Believe it or not, man already had created FTL air and spacecrafts in 1970’s, creating advanced technology was never a question in the first place, ENERGY is whats required if you need to build something huge, e.g , pure raw form of HE3 atomic number.

[/quote]

wait… what? FTL space vessels? how?

if so then why even bother experimenting with Neutrinos if the light speed record has already been broken and that too, with far more useful piece of machinery such as space ships as oppose to neutral Neutrinos which can’t even carry a proton to travel 10 meters if not more?

Besides its not just about requiring vast amounts of energies in order to propel to where ever intended because vast amounts of anti-matter is yet to be found and there are consequences on mass specially if its biological mass traveling at or near the proven, the one and only universally constant, the speed of light.

Helium-3 is already rare on earth and I don’t think all the helium 3 from the moon is not enough to travel your mAss let alone your mass+spaceship’s mass to nearest exoplanet Epsilon Eridani b at or near the speed of light (let traveling faster then speed of light be subsided for a sec :D ) which is roughly 10.5 light years away…

Helium-3 or not, we don’t have a viable fusion plant yet on earth as fission is much less efficient in energy production so I don’t really know what your talking about…?

[quote=“Faisal, post:17, topic:16352”]

I don’t think there’s such case in this regard but I will be interested to hear your theory if you think there is such case.

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No conspiracy theories. It’s true. You should Google and read about ‘‘Allen Caggiano’’ and his achievements. Sorry, I can’t post it here for you due to some legal purposes. B)

latest on this:

http://news.cnet.com/8301-30685_3-57398740-264/not-so-fast-neutrinos-cern-says-lights-speedier-still/?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&tag=nl.e703

"

New experimental evidence is helping disprove

last year's highly surprising finding of neutrinos breaking established physics laws

by traveling faster than light.

"

....

some ppl will find this pdf very interesting:

http://arxiv.org/find/all/1/all:+AND+gravity+AND+on+AND+last+word/0/1/0/all/0/1

goto that link and the first pdf is "Will Einstein Have The Last Word on Gravity". Read that its amazing.