APC UPS and Battery charging issues..!


#1

Hi all.

i just bought 2 APC Smart UPS SUA1500i.

i already had a very good Local UPS 1000W for use with PC. . just had 2 new Exide 185A batteries installed with it 3 months back.

i connected the APC to the entire setup, very hectic task and it started up. initially it also detected my previously almost 3/4 charged batteries as 2 bars, and charged them upto full in 2 hours.

now the problem is, that when checked with a meter, the cables are charging the batteries at 4-5Amp.. the previous UPS used to charge at 18-19amps dead battery, 10-12A after loadshedding, and 3-7A average.

now the APC in our market are supposed to be charging enhanced UPS, and should charge upto 10 A on dead battery.. mine started charging at 3-5Am fluctuating. i used up batteries till UPS shut down in 3 hours, and then starterd charging dead. again 4-5Am only

the problem is that, either its not enhanced by the APC software yet, or improperly done. orrr... the ups is incapable of faster charging.. the Official APC spec says, its supposed to charge at 6.8Amp max. meaning i m charging default specs

the other thing is that when i disconnected and reconned the UPS after deadening the batteries, it again showed 2 charged bars where as it should have been empty.

as for 2 heavy 185Amps batteries, they should charge in about 8-10 hours to max capacity. where as this UPS is charging them to 5 bars in 3 hours.. WITH pc using lots of power.

WTF?? :o

1 - what serial cable is required to connect this UPS to PC for using the APC software?.. there is no usb port, the sellers removed it.. any Serial to USB cable? and from where to get in lahore?

2 - would i need an external rapid charger with these UPS? cz i wud have to buy 2 of them , one for my PC and other for Home. extra cost.. :(

3 - is everyones APC Ups charging such huge bateries at this speed? and in 3 hours?. the desi UPS used to give around 6-7 hours Backup, this only gave me 3 hours. in same day.

HELPPPP me understand this craziness..


#2

^^Tell me are these refurbished APC UPS which are locally available? If it is the case, then seller has just screwed you by selling repaired UPS.


#3

locally available UPS, but the UPS is clean inside, no repairing, no soldering or damaged PCB, the UPS picks up full load of appliances and PC, and doesnot restart or anything.

thats why the problems.

although i checked yesterday, an interesting finding. on my previous UPS, which was on 9-10A charging., the current flow in the battery cells, which vibrates the acid inside, was minimal on it.. but there is a bit more rapid vibration and bubbles in the battery cells now despite the low ampere charging.

any correlation?

Previous questions still apply..


#4

Actually, you have bought a refurbished UPS. There must be some fault in that UPS that is why that was dumped to Pakistan. I have seen these APC UPS and one of my relative also bought it.

If charging current is low, then take it back to the seller and ask him to increase the charging current.

The bubbling which you are seeing in battery now could be because this UPS is charging at higher voltage. Those bubbles are hydrogen gas arising out of the battery.


#5

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:, topic:”]

1 - what serial cable is required to connect this UPS to PC for using the APC software?.. there is no usb port, the sellers removed it… any Serial to USB cable? and from where to get in lahore?

2 - would i need an external rapid charger with these UPS? cz i wud have to buy 2 of them , one for my PC and other for Home. extra cost… :(

3 - is everyones APC Ups charging such huge bateries at this speed? and in 3 hours?. the desi UPS used to give around 6-7 hours Backup, this only gave me 3 hours. in same day.

HELPPPP me understand this craziness…

[/quote]

1) APC uses a non-standard serial cable, you need to do some searching on how to make one yourself.

2) When there is too much load-shedding, you will need an external charger.

3) In simple words, yes. APC behaves the same as you described and there are reasons for this behavior.

APC is designed for sealed lead acid batteries (AGM or VRLA type) and not the flooded lead acid type batteries. The charger and other sensing circuitry is all optimized for sealed batteries. Any UPS senses the state of battery by it’s terminal voltage. But the charging and discharging curves for sealed batteries differ from flooded lead acid batteries. That is the primary reason for this behavior.

Since APC is not designed for load-shedding, the design is based on internal and small AH batteries thus making the charger also smaller. Some models so support external battery bank and they have high capacity chargers but still our load-shedding beats everything even the designers at APC.


#6

Thanks blogger and ijaz ahmed.

the UPS is now connected and working in house. it trips if by mistake someone turns on the chandlier with many bulbs, other than that, it is lifting the whole load of the house with 3 load bars at max. included, 2 fans, 3 tube lights, a 42in LCD, an amplifier and large speakers and 1 energy saver. total watts for that whole setup were about 600W, so yeah, it runs easy.

the only problems i am left with are

1 - The backup time for these 2x batteries is only 3 hours at max for my pc, whereas the previous 1000W local ups used to give me 7-8 hours easily, just checked the day before installing the APC. is APC backup time less due to filtering of sine waves and constant 220 output voltage?

2 - how can this ups charge the batteries so rapidly?. i mean charging 2 exide 185 amps batteries takes around 10 hours at 10Amp constant current. this one does 5 bars in 3 hours from 1 bar at 4-5Amps current speed/. there probably isnt proper charging being done. or else?

3 - how is it possible for an apc to read the batteires so inefficiently?. the XL models read the properly and give long backup and faster charging, my SUA1500i both 2x ups charge so fast and dischage on use so fast. they drop to 2 bars from 5 in just half an hour. the last bar works for another 40-50 mins.

@blogger

as you mentioned , if its charging at higher voltage, is that why it is bubbling more?. is that why its only outputting 5 amps? also in case of low amps, and huge batteries, how do i connect an external charger?

What is the solution people?. how do i solve this situation?


#7

1) You might have got an APC which has been altered thus it's battery sensing is screwed up. A mechanic might have fiddled with some components to increase the charging current.

2) Because it does not drain the battery too much, thus charges them in lesser time.

Normally like Desi UPS, the APC does not drain the battery to death thus giving lesser backup time.

Your best bet is to add an external charger, I will post some info on it soon.


#8

Well some very rare information, which to my knowledge even none of the experienced APC users know, is what I would be sharing with you. Based on hours of searching here and there and trying to get the answer from people all around, especially from APC forums.I am no electrical/electronic expert myself, just a normal average user.

You might have solved your issue by now, however I had some similar questions when using dry Leoch Batteries with my APC SUA1500i. After research I got to know that there is a battery constant setting in the APC UPS firmware which needs to adjusted (or automatically calibrated) whenever we use different type of batteries with APC or if connecting an external battery bank, to let the UPS correctly estimate capacity and charging time.

For this you need to have the APC standard DB-9 serial cable part no as follows :

http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=940-0024

Since it might now be easily available, I got it made from the local electronics shop in Saddar Karachi, by having a cable and two DB-9 serial connecters. The cable diagram is as follows:

http://pinoutsguide.com/UPS/apc_smart_cable_pinout.shtml

The manual method used for configuring the APC battery constant after connecting with the serial cable can be :

http://www.conetrix.com/blog/post/manually-esetting-an-apc-smart-ups-battery-constant-after-new-battery-replacement.aspx

I used the following software (very rarely people know about it) from a russian website, it automatically finds the battery constant based on the connected battery.

http://www.apc-fix.com/page.php?al=apcfix

Once i was able to fix the battery constant, i had most of my problems solved for undercharging and short backup time and flashing LEDs on the UPS. I would have to do it again whenever i replace the batteries with a new brand or different capacity/ratings.

Say a little thanks if you found the information useful and you were able to get over your unanswered questions.

Cheers.

AlterEgo.


#9

Nice and useful information. I did change the APC batteries few days ago, will make a cable and do some experimentation.


#10

APC In Higher capacity models, there are few which support External Batteries...... So My Aurora is doing best :D Dr. Farhan mera 15 Ton ka AC bhi chala raha hay ;)


#11

^

tumblr_los755Kzxe1qf51e1.jpg


#12

^ That looks like a very sad mango :D


#13

ha ha ha ha ha......


#14

i have been using APC UPS from 3 months and it is working like a charm... it is a used one, and condition from outer side and inner side was fine when i bought it...

when i first installed it, i was facing same issue, charging current was less and hence it was charging barely 4 bars in 5 hours, took it to a guy,

he connected it with computer via serial port and corrected the charging voltage,

after that no issue so far,

so what i get is your UPS is configured wrong, and need to be upgraded again using serial port, that unfortunately your seller has removed.

btw mine ups is 2200 W and it gets charge from zero to full in 3 hours and giving a good backup of 3-4 hours using 7 fans and 10 energy savers.


#15

[quote=“nvd650, post:10, topic:16976”]

APC In Higher capacity models, there are few which support External Batteries… So My Aurora is doing best :D Dr. Farhan mera 15 Ton ka AC bhi chala raha hay ;)

[/quote]

Can you tell how much watt your ups is + battery amps? and for how much you bought it?


#16

[quote=“Mumtaz, post:14, topic:16976”]

i have been using APC UPS from 3 months and it is working like a charm… it is a used one, and condition from outer side and inner side was fine when i bought it…

when i first installed it, i was facing same issue, charging current was less and hence it was charging barely 4 bars in 5 hours, took it to a guy,

he connected it with computer via serial port and corrected the charging voltage,

after that no issue so far,

so what i get is your UPS is configured wrong, and need to be upgraded again using serial port, that unfortunately your seller has removed.

btw mine ups is 2200 W and it gets charge from zero to full in 3 hours and giving a good backup of 3-4 hours using 7 fans and 10 energy savers.

[/quote]

@ Mumtaz.

I am also facing the same charging issue with my SUA 1500i. Can you kindly mail me the address of the guiy who configured your apc ups. My email is 43.iqbal@gmail.com

A message on mobile will also be welcome. My No.0346-5331696


#17

[quote=“Mumtaz, post:14, topic:16976”]

i have been using APC UPS from 3 months and it is working like a charm… it is a used one, and condition from outer side and inner side was fine when i bought it…

when i first installed it, i was facing same issue, charging current was less and hence it was charging barely 4 bars in 5 hours, took it to a guy,

he connected it with computer via serial port and corrected the charging voltage,

after that no issue so far,

so what i get is your UPS is configured wrong, and need to be upgraded again using serial port, that unfortunately your seller has removed.

btw mine ups is 2200 W and it gets charge from zero to full in 3 hours and giving a good backup of 3-4 hours using 7 fans and 10 energy savers.

[/quote]

yes Mumtaz please share what kind of tweaks did he use , i am also very much interested in knowing cuz my APC is just screwing me up , i have 2x 135 AMPs batteries and the timing is around 3-4 hours for my PC on full charges batteries…


#18

^ 4 hours PC backup time?... what else could you possibly want more?


#19

[quote=“farhan_ds, post:18, topic:16976”]

^ 4 hours PC backup time?.. what else could you possibly want more?

[/quote]

yar charging is very slow , like 8 hours from full empty…

i wana fix the charging…


#20

Hi all

can any one of u please tell me where(reliable) can I get a refurbished APC from Lahore. I am looking for 2000-2200 kva.